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Old 04-13-2011   #21
 
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Buena Vista, Colorado
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Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
All I'm saying is We have a "use it or lose it" situation here on the Lake Fork. It needs boaters. The LF is only about an hour south of the Taylor. Boaters talk about supporting the Lf but it doesn't happen. Instead of playing bumper boats on the Taylor and Gunny come down and support the LF. The big talk just pisses me off because it seems like that is all it is. Float remote. If their are fiffty boats a day on a stretch and commerical trips it is getting support. Free shuttle is still available.
Lake Fork has some sweet stretches on it, but a much more limited season than the Taylor...especially with the current snowpack in the San Juans. I would like to boat it more, but it simply isn't as convienant.

I agree that we need more boater support for the LF...but how about working to get it organized instead of talking down to people who are concerned about the Taylor. It's in your backyard, talk with CW and get something going.
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Old 04-13-2011   #22
 
Lake City, Colorado
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Town to Red Bridge needs boaters but while here red bridge down is a must.
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Old 04-13-2011   #23
 
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Buena Vista, Colorado
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I'm thinking something like "Lake Fork awareness weekend BBQ, Kayaking and Camping". Clear it with CW, plan it during medium flow, and promote it on the Buzz. I bet that would attract a whole new group of paddlers to your valley...
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Old 04-13-2011   #24
 
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Littleton, Colorado
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It's funny you mentioned the Lake Fork. The fine folks at the Gateview homeowners association pretty much started the trend towards privatizing rivers when they sued Cannibal Outdoors out of business. Many of the major players in the Cannibal case are the same folks trying to shut down access to the Taylor.
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Old 04-13-2011   #25
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
All I'm saying is We have a "use it or lose it" situation here on the Lake Fork. It needs boaters. Boaters talk about supporting the Lf but it doesn't happen. Instead of playing bumper boats on the Taylor and Gunny come down and support the LF. If their are fiffty boats a day on a stretch and commerical trips it is getting support.
Its not a "use it or lose it" situation and a large number of boaters who want to make a stand doesn't "support" a given stretch of river, it just inflames the situation.

No one't going to take away our existing rights if there are fewer boats on any given reach of river. Getting a bunch of confrontational boaters on a protest float on some section of river they never would have run anyway could be counterproductive to the whole cause.

-AH
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Old 04-13-2011   #26
 
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Andy - Why is it that you assume that a protest float will end in disaster? I'd tend to assume that the type of folks cared enough to show up to such an event would be the type to project a more positive image of boaters in general. My experience has been that the dirtbags and morons don't care enough to get involved.

To think that no one will take away our existing rights if there are fewer boats on the river is a bit naive and ignores history. Gateview HOA was able to put Cannibal out of business in part due to a lack of action on the part of the boating community as a whole. I'd bet a weeks wages that if the Lake Fork situation had recieved the kind of attention and support that the Taylor dispute did last year it would have ended differently.

I'm not saying protest floats are the answer, but in certain situations a display of solidarity might be just the thing to cause the "it's MY river" crowd to think twice before stringing up that wire across the river.
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Old 04-13-2011   #27
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Originally Posted by slavetotheflyrod View Post
Andy - Why is it that you assume that a protest float will end in disaster? I'd tend to assume that the type of folks cared enough to show up to such an event would be the type to project a more positive image of boaters in general. My experience has been that the dirtbags and morons don't care enough to get involved.

To think that no one will take away our existing rights if there are fewer boats on the river is a bit naive and ignores history. Gateview HOA was able to put Cannibal out of business in part due to a lack of action on the part of the boating community as a whole. I'd bet a weeks wages that if the Lake Fork situation had recieved the kind of attention and support that the Taylor dispute did last year it would have ended differently.

I'm not saying protest floats are the answer, but in certain situations a display of solidarity might be just the thing to cause the "it's MY river" crowd to think twice before stringing up that wire across the river.
An argument made last year which lead directly to the agreement we currently have noted that currently the number of floaters is small and inconsequential to privacy and disruption of the peace, quiet and fishing. A flotilla on the other hand bats down the argument made for the floaters case.
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Old 04-13-2011   #28
 
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Evergreen, Colorado
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Fight this shit to the death and give no ground.

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As a Colorado native, living in Texas for a year, I can't emphasize fighting this enough. Here in Texas, the second biggest State, there is almost zero public land. No BLM, no Forrest Service, just little tiny "state parks" which are closed for public safety during any reasonable high water event. Hence, even though the waterway rights are the same in Texas as they are in Colorado, the attitude of landowners is that it is illegal. The Barny Fife law enforcement will write tickets and enforce the landowner point-of-view. The prosecuters then refuse to dismiss the tickets and refuse to bring them to court because they will likely lose. This leaves the issue in limbo with landowners dictating river access through intimidation. Paddlers have been held at gunpoint until law enforcement arrives. These are the people moving into Colorado. Fight this shit to the death and give no ground.
Joe

Well said.
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Old 04-13-2011   #29
 
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First, I live in Austin, TX. I ardently support any paddler in any state fighting to protect their rights to river access. This is a current issue in nearly every U.S. state with navigable rivers.

I also agree that what we (the few, the proud, the Texas Kayaking Community) have here in TX is not a desirable situation by any means. I have been on the receiving end of threats of violence and arrest for putting on to a run at flood and Joe’s description of how this sort of intimidation is used is accurate. However, to imply that the situation in Texas and in Colorado is even slightly comparable is ridiculous at best. You are at the headwaters of the West, you have reliable creeks and streams, and a successful industry built around river recreation that attracts 1,000’s of tourist a year. I can guarantee, if we had just two of above listed features river access in the State of Texas would be no different that it is in Colorado. However, when the 2nd largest State in the nation has only got a half dozen Class III or above runs (most of which are on public lands) that run less than once a year on avg., and when they do their sought out by a tiny minority of the state’s populace, you can imagine that protecting that minorities right to access is far from a priority in the eyes of the law.

The assertion made by Joe that Texas culture is irreconcilable with those of Coloradans and that your currently being invaded by this Army of Nazi Texan developers that come from a culture that commonly privatize navigable waterways sounds a little far flung from this side of the State Line. If they’re from Texas, they probably don’t know what a kayak looks like, except for the sit on top their daughter bought in college that they thought was sure sign she was becoming a lesbian.

My point being a greedy douche bag is a greedy douche bag, don’t go tying their greed to some sort of culture perception you’ve picked up on in your short time living in a state where few people share your favorite past time.

If you ever want to know what it’s like to sneak through a mile of dense mesquite brush to slip into a Class III drainage full of chocolate milk, ducking beneath barbwire mid rapid, and constantly looking over your shoulder to see if the Rancher is standing on the cliff with shotgun in hand, look me up on your next Texas vacation. But in the meantime, go out there and protect what is yours, so I can come borrow it each spring.
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Old 04-13-2011   #30
 
Littleton, Colorado
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I'd say possibly getting arrested is a class 6 feature, if there ever was one. I'm still a solid class 2 boater, at best. Probably more like Class I.

If greater numbers bring down the difficulty level, than I'll gladly join, though.
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