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Old 07-15-2008   #71
 
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Boise, Idaho
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Enough is Enough!!!

I am seriously disgusted with the number of posts that are attacking Surgass for venting her frustration!
If you weren't there, you shouldn't have jack to say. As a close friend of the family,
I feel deeply saddened by the lack of compassion for Justin and his family.

Now I'm certainly not saying that all Buzzards are responding this way, in fact many have been empathetic and kind...

However, the rest of you clearly do NOT know what it feels like to lose somebody close to you.
I have & and it is the most painful experience. My brother died two years ago and not a day goes by that I don't second guess what went down.

I applaud Surgass for her staying on this thread and continuing to remain open to the vast array of opinions out there. I don't know if I could have done that.

Even if you disagree with Surgass about the EMT situation, the fact is, that's her opinion,
and I belive being at the scene affords her the ability to call it like it is. What would be her motivation to bad talk EMS????

One more thing, Summit AP, aka Mr. EMT, I have read several of your post on the buzz, but this has got to be the lowest.
You just love joining in and making fun of people on this site. Please grow up and have some Fu%ki&g compassion...even my dog is more insightful then you.
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Old 07-15-2008   #72
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9300ft, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coon View Post
One more thing, Summit AP, aka Mr. EMT, I have read several of your post on the buzz, but this has got to be the lowest.
You just love joining in and making fun of people on this site. Please grow up and have some Fu%ki&g compassion...even my dog is more insightful then you.
Actually, I have REPEATEDLY praised surgass's commendable actions and encouraged her to seek help for her PTSD. My only problem was painting a whole organization with one brush. I'm not here to make fun of people. You clearly have me confused with someone else. I have never been disrespectful to anyone on this forum... except for daislyoo who first told me they hoped that I died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randaddy View Post
This might be the dumbest thing I've read all week. I guess it's still just Tuesday...

First responders are there to assess the safety of the scene and provide basic care when EMS is not yet present. A lot of research has gone into the training of first responders and many of us only have the time and money to get this level of training. Are you telling me that I should stay away from injured people because I'm a first responder? Give me a break.
You misread him. He was saying that that *particular* person wasn't fit to be a first responder because he believed in predestination. I'd assume that his implication was that someone who thinks that an outcome is predestined will do little to change the course of events, not that all first responders were bad.
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Old 07-15-2008   #73
 
Oak Creek, CO (noon bell, bitches), Colorado
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DETAILS

Can anyone answer the questions from previous post:
where was this exactly, rapid or no. lifevest or no, circumstances of the injury, etc. level of upper C running around 4K that week? rafters, kayaks, drinking, anything?

Not trying to discount this event AT ALL. It is horrifying and can happen all too easy on the river. Just wanting to know how the injury happened- it seems like he slipped and fell into the river and hit his head? Was he still in his vest? and where on the river.

Thanks to anyone with more info. Thanks to surgass for all your help, I am sure you did more than you can imagine in that man's final hours.
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Old 07-15-2008   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummitAP View Post
You misread him. He was saying that that *particular* person wasn't fit to be a first responder because he believed in predestination. I'd assume that his implication was that someone who thinks that an outcome is predestined will do little to change the course of events, not that all first responders were bad.
I guess I should have read all of the thread. Sorry if I misread. I have heard a lot of EMTs and Paramedics complain about first responders...

I still disagree with the comment. Even the most hard core determinists should, and almost always do, act as though predestination is not the case. In fact, if determinism is true, they have no choice but to act that way (unless of course they are pre-determined to act as if they are pre-determined, which is VERY problematic..)!

There are some pretty faulty arguments in determinist theory. There are some who still subscribe to it, but they have deep logical issues to sort out before they convince me!

Anyway, sorry if I misinterpreted the statement. First responders are a good asset in the field in my opinion and I would hope that nobody wants to see them stay away from injured people!
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Old 07-15-2008   #75
 
castle rock, Colorado
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Rita from surgass's first post it said that they were getting their dog when i take it Justin lost his shoe. The husband did ask if help was needed and it was not. It sounds like it was below needles eye (pump house) because she said something about a cabin. As far as helmet goes i would say that there was none cause i took it as they were in a raft and this section is kind of easy and they had a dog. Yes he did have a pfd on cause that is what grabed there attion when he was floating down the river. It sounds like it was a fall on the rock and hit his head right above his eye.

Surgass Please fill in or tell me if i miss understod
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Old 07-15-2008   #76
 
Durango, Colorado
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EMS Liability

I have worked on an ambulance and in other first aid jobs. I have seen negligence and incompetence first hand.

My impression is that people are very reluctant to criticize fire and rescue folks, mostly because they know nothing or next to nothing about first aid or emergency medicine.

Ambulance people screw up. Doctors screw up. Nurses screw up.

I have nothing but sympathy for the situation. If the crew acted in the manner described: something should be done. Training, discipline. Or if all else fails a lawsuit.

But incompetence and negligence occur in the EMS system as well as everywhere else.
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Old 07-15-2008   #77
 
DENVER, Colorado
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This was just sent to me. I don't see a name or a way to respond to you. I don't think I'm the one who has to worry about a law suit.

Hung those Eagle county EMS personell yet?
I appluad your efforts BUT you are a dumbass. You slammed ECAD multiple times in multiple replies on the thread and you should be held accountable for slander and libel. Ever think of that? Stupid RN.
I am a river guide, an EMT, and an ER veteran with 12 years experience in a level one Trauma center. I have worked a death on the river, I know what you felt but you need to keep your fucking emotions at bay when you post online. You should know better, as you work in the Emergency care field, you judged and hung ECAD without the actual facts. Now Grant County may be full of dumbasses who dont give a shit but the EMT's and EMTP's that I come into contact with on a daily basis here in Vail are caring pros who are also boaters.
For all the effort you put forth trying to save a young man, you wasted it by your stupid antics on this site.
You should be ashamed of your actions, specifically the slander and libel that you spread here on the Buzz.

peaks2paddles

Why not post it!!!!
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Old 07-15-2008   #78
sj
 
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Surgas01 your actions were heroic and I applaud them. I will boat with you anytime. I however new you were in for the shit. You should have been more pointed in your critique and aimed it at the 2 EMT's that showed up not the whole operation.

That said however. The thin skin of the Emt's and especially the one's from Eagle County give me pause. IMO you've made a Mountain out of a mole hill and this thread would have died a while back. sj
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Old 07-15-2008   #79
 
Durango, Colorado
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Internet

Dear Surgas 01

Having just read the email about your posts I am reminded of a saying we are fond of.

On the Internet no one knows you are a Dog.

But there is plenty of evidence of stupidity. Which even a dog would be ashamed of.

If you witnessed acts of incompetence you should do something about it. Including posting here.

Don't let the bastards get you down.
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Old 07-15-2008   #80
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coon View Post
If you weren't there, you shouldn't have jack to say.

As far as I'm aware, you werenít there either. Why is it that you can comment? She criticized in a public forum, and therefore opened it to this.

NOBODY is questioning surgass' heroism. It sounds like she did an incredible job giving him the best chances at making it. EVERYBODY agrees on that.

However, she then vented on a public forum about the EMS service. Some parts of it were clearly false (as in who responded); some of it may very well be true (the poor service). Nobody knows. Surgass was there, but was clearly in an emotional state. I certainely can't feel comfortable taking her account without questioning it. I know that I'm wouldn't have an unbiased position if I was in the same position. Because she vented in such a public manner, there are people defending the EMS's reputation. Certainly a reasonable action. A free pass can't be handed to surgass if she attacks in such a manner...even in light of her heroic actions.

If shit hit the fan, I would want surgass there; I would also want SummitAP there, all of these good people on the forum. I know that they would do the best they could for me (I donít personally know any of them).

This whole thread is a mess. I hope everybody else can resist posting. I regretfully couldnít.
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