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Old 07-14-2008   #51
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
This is weird. Is this an EMS guy who says, "too bad that the guy died but his number was up"? Is this the EMS attitude in GC? I'm not sure I want someone like this working on me when my life is in the balance.

This is also weird that here you have a woman who worked her but off to try to save a life. She's got medical experience and there's no indication that she's got a warped sense of reality. She reported what she saw and she's trying to be fair. And you are yelling at her to shut up?

Don't question the system unless you have proof? Sounds like a recipe for giving EMS people a free ride. This woman had a first hand experience and you didn't, yet you know enough to tell her she's wrong with what she saw?

You tell her to have sympathy for the dead guy, but she went through a very traumatic experience trying to save him and you are yelling at her? I bet the dead guy's family would side with her.

Clearly, EMS is a hard job. I hope they get paid enough. We don't ask them to be emotionally attached to patients, but we expect them to be professional.

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Old 07-14-2008   #52
castle rock, Colorado
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dreamoutloud are you single? I can tell you like to take charge

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Old 07-14-2008   #53
castle rock, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I have worked alot with grand county ems and they do rock but the thing is that NO ONE WAS THERE TO SEE THE WHOLE THING. yes surgass was there and she did do alot (4 hours or so of cpr) that takes alot lot out of a person. I feel she did every thing right up to the point of bloging on the buzz. There are things that make me question alot of things in all storys but I do not know what really happend so there for I can not talk about how great gcems is or how they have messed things up. All I know is that on the river surgass did the right thing and she should have nothing to be sorry for. The only thing is that messing up the facts and putting it up here is not cool. Yes i understand what you heard was the wrong info but there are other chanels that you need and should have taken befor dropping bombs about people who were not even there and then second like every one who has been or has worked very closely with ems is that they are very cool and they make every move count even if it seems to be in slow mood.
But way to go on the river you really did do a great job and do not be sorry for what you did "ON THE RIVER"
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Old 07-14-2008   #54
Phillips's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorasta
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Posts: 843
Put a fork in it guys. All the arguing in the world won't bring the young man back or bring any additional comfort to his family.

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Old 07-14-2008   #55
Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Since An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's still very unclear what actually happened to cause this accident in the 1st place.

With over 50 post some of this information may have been covered so I apologize if any of these questions are repetative but here are some questions worth asking.

1. Was Justin wearing a helmet?
2. What section of the Upper Colorado was the accident on? Class? Rapid?
3. Was it high water?
4. Did Justin jump into the river after you first saw him to catch up to the rest of his group that was waiting down below? So as to swim in the river to catch up rather than walk along the shore?
5. How did the boat flip, dump, etc in the first place?

Again not pointing blame or saying that anyone's at fault, just curious what actually caused this accident in the first place. Were there preventable measures that could have taken place (helmet, communication devices, pfd, etc) so people can learn from this accident.
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Old 07-14-2008   #56
V for Victory
9300ft, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
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Originally Posted by basil View Post
This is weird. Is this an EMS guy who says, "too bad that the guy died but his number was up"? Is this the EMS attitude in GC? I'm not sure I want someone like this working on me when my life is in the balance.
This whole thread is a shame. I hate to see my neighbor emergency services get crapped on as a whole. Neither ECAD nor GCEMS deserve to be attacked this way. I have friends in both services and I know that both services are full of caring, competent, dedicated EMS providers.

Originally Posted by basil View Post
Clearly, EMS is a hard job. I hope they get paid enough.
Nobody is in EMS for the money. You can make better money as a grocery bagger than as an EMT. Anyone still in EMS after a year is in it because they love it. Many of us solely volunteer.
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Old 07-14-2008   #57
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Okay guys I have been blasted enough. I get it you all work EMS. Great. I don't. Here is the thing I have been sort of fair but now I'm tired. Here is some of the differences between the ER and what I saw. They wanted to check Justin's glucose. I thought and told them that I thought this was a great idea (thinking maybe his blood sugar was low and this is why he fell into the water in the first place) They stuck the test strip into the deep cut in his eye. This was clotted so they got an error message. Now in the ER we check a patients finger or maybe even their toe. I asked why they did not do it the proper way and their response was we would have to move him too much. So I stuck his hand up and said " Look I didn't have to move him at all." They also checked his body temp. It read 0. Now in the ER we would have checked a rectal temp. They did not log roll him onto the back board they just threw him onto it. I questioned this and they said it was beside the point. I yelled "Not if he lives." Okay so this is only part of what I saw. Maybe I was wrong about who responded but I'm not wrong in how it was handled. Maybe you guys are not use to being supervised and scrutinized I guess this is where a lot of animosity shows. To the guy who joined to blog because someone had to, you are a fine example of why this is a tragedy. No compassion I guess that this is how you function. Well if I had my choice I would much rather have human emotion. Yes I do share EMAIL with Justin's family, they own a river rafting company, I would like you to EMAIL them yourself and tell them that their son's ticket was up. You are sick and need help. Thanks to all that have understood. Like I have said several times this was a horror show and I'm not sorry for blogging this, I'm only sorry to the company that was falsely victimized. I will make it right I'm just trying to get all the facts this time. I have learned my lesson the hard way and I'm deeply remorseful. Just cut me some slack and I will make this right.
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Old 07-14-2008   #58
V for Victory
9300ft, Colorado
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Look, you have grouped in an entire ambulance service(s) in with your accusations, which grow worse and worse with every post.

What exactly are you going to "make right"? And how is this accomplishing it? Have you tried talking to those who you accuse?
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Old 07-15-2008   #59
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Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
I really can not believe people are attacking this woman. Some folks on here deserve this kind of e-beatdown (slave cook recruiter, whistling swimmer), but in my opinion, not her.
Surgass did a heroic thing, no question. As for her calling out the EMTs, I think her resume gives her some credibility to be critical of their actions. Those of you who simply know some EMTs as good guys/gals who weren't there at the scene, this is not the kind of situation where you rant like an typical buzzard. She was told incorrectly where they came from by the coroner, not quite her fault, and she has apologized and has said she is trying to correct any accusations.
As for the EMTs, if there is some lack of training, judgement or worse, why would anyone be opposed to looking into that? As a boater who runs Gore many times a year with some of my closest friends, I'd like to see well equiped and trained EMTs in Grand County. I certainly wouldn't want someone like Dreamoutloud2, who thinks he knows the will of God, working on me or my friends.
"Weak" is a seriously poor choice of words. From your account, I'd say you were quite strong Surgass01.

"I think I handled my alcohol pretty well considering how drunk I was." -Cousin Dan
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Old 07-15-2008   #60
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Ap just cause you know one chicken doesn't mean you know the flock. marty made a great point. gore is just around the corner and if these are the dudes that we(ANYBODY RUNNING GORE) are counting on when the shit hits that fan than we want them to be the best not some basic get er done group of red necks.

there is a time for days when you can kick it and check out the scenery, but there is also times when serious should be on the top of the list next to professionalism. i wasn't there to see and am just hearing the stories; but what gets me is she called them a shit show because she was stating the facts and they asked her if she'd like to continue alone? wow that's the big ball buster right there. bunch of cocky ems that think its a privledge to have them work on us? Sounds like attitudes need to change or the people working for the county need to be changed.

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