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Old 07-13-2008   #41
 
Louisville, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenna1 View Post
If it's any consolation, I had a similar experience 6 years ago with the EMS in Denver. Myself and another woman (in a medical office literally 40 yards across a parking lot from Porter Adventist Hospital) were doing CPR on a man who had collapsed, stopped breathing, his pulse was very strong, then it was gone. We took turns doing CPR on him, while the other called 911. We also requested help from physicians down the hall...nobody would come down with a crash cart, nonetheless come down as support. The ER at Porter hospital refused to send anybody over to help for liability reasons. So we continued CPR for 30 minutes before EMS strolled in. There was no sense of urgency, as they rummaged through their gear, etc. Nonetheless, myself and the other woman involved continued CPR for another 5 minutes before these clowns relieved us.

I can also relate with some of the emotions you are having surgass01. I worked in a Level 1 Trauma ER for 4 years prior to that situaton and had alot of exposure to CORs. But it was very different handling an emergency like that outside of the controlled setting of an ER. I was very stressed about it days afterwards. I had nightmares. I felt more attached and responsible for what went down and was constantly wondering what I could have been done differently.

It's commendable that you hung in there so long. You gave it your best shot...It's good to know there are people like you out there...


Jen
I've been reading this post and have become slightly disturbed by some of what I'm reading. First, I would like to identify myself. My name is Sean and I'm a Firefighter/Paramedic in the Front Range. I have also worked for both EMS agencies in Eagle County and am still a part time Paramedic with one of them. I have also been a kayaker for the past three years and have spent my entire life on and around the water. Before moving here to Colorado, I spend 7 years in the US Coast Guard as a Search and Rescue Coordinator, so I believe I can speak with confidence about this post.

First, kayaking, rafting, or any sport around the water is dangerous, but nonetheless, whenever a fellow boater is killed or injured, it hits everyone in our small community hard. I am very grateful to know there are people out there who are willing to take action when action (and not talk) is needed because I know the risks I take when I go out.

As a paramedic and a boater, I've been on both sides of the emergency. Someone made mention that in an emergency; the best action is to remain calm. We as EMS'ers know this but what we need to remember is that sometimes our actions may be interpreted as slow, not calm, and we have an obligation to reassure those that are expecting us to help. I am not going to try to justify the actions of those who responded to this emergency because I was not there. I would like to make sure that everyone knows that there are varying levels of EMS providers and often the urgency of a situation gets lost in translation as it passes thru 911 to the responding agency. That being said, sometimes the EMS provider who arrives may be walking into a situation that is beyond their "Scope of Practice" and my not have the training or equipment necessary for the situation at hand.

As for the comment quoted above..., you said it best when you said, "...it was very different handling an emergency like that outside of the controlled setting of an ER." Emergency's outside of a controlled environment is what WE do. We don't have a Level I trauma room with a seemingly endless supply of hands to assist with our calls. Often, all we have are ourselves, our partner, and maybe a firefighter or two. As a medic and BLS instructor, I know the benefit of good quality CPR and not interrupting quality compressions. If I had responded to a scene to find an ER nurse doing quality CPR, I would have not asked you to stop just because I was there. I would have asked you to continue as well because I have other important things I can be doing. I dated an ER nurse several years ago and she used to badmouth EMT's all the time. I'm glad you had the opportunity to experience a little taste of what we have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. Staying calm, using other resources, and being able to adapt to the ever-changing environment of the streets is what "WE" as an EMS community are good at. Please try to respect the role we play in helping others. It's a different world outside the ER as you found out. Now imagine being on a river in a raft, or on top of Vail Mountain as I once was.

I respect everyone who was involved with the incident and feel for the family.

As a side note. Remember the rules for posting on Mt. Buzz and let’s try to not be hateful or put down others for exercising their first amendment right.
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Old 07-13-2008   #42
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Hi Sean, Thanks for the input you have provided. Believe me when I say I'm not down playing the role of EMT'S. There would be no tomorrow for a lot of people without them. I know they are very knowledgeable and most work in an ER setting as well as out in the field. I do now know the difference from working in a controlled setting and seeing someone that I just saw 20 minutes prior alive and well now floating in the river. I will always question everything I did that day, yes what I did. Not just the EMT's that responded. Should I have kept him in the cold water? Should I have not moved his neck? Should I have stayed there until someone came to help? Should I have done the Heimlich? Should I have stopped and helped him when I saw him on the bank? Did he already have a head injury when I saw him? There are a lot of questions in my heart and mind about what could have been done differently by everyone involved. Does everyone honestly think I didn't know he was already gone. The fact is I never gave up and wish the people that responded would not have either. There is a difference between being calm and just not interested because they knew it was a lost cause. As you probably know they could not call Flight if they could not get a pulse. They never got a pulse without compressions but I do think because I was so distraught they did what I asked. They never made me leave I continued CPR with them and I appreciate that very much. I was verbally abusive to them and they never lashed much back. They later told me they thought he was a friend of mine. No but I wish he would have been. Thank Sean and if I dated you I would not put the good work of EMT's down because we will all need them some day.
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Old 07-13-2008   #43
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Sawtooth, Thank you what you said made me laugh through me tears thank you.
(quote from Sawtooth)
As an aside you shouldn’t prohibit your kids from paddling solely because they are poor swimmers; paddlers are terrible swimmers that is why they are usually in boats.
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Old 07-13-2008   #44
 
KVBA TV8 Vail weatherman/Colorado Kayaker, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 847
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Weak. Write a letter slamming them and its not even Eagle County EMS. It is a tragic situation and I am saddened to hear of the loss of life. But you coming on here only made it worse. While it is wonderful you were able to help and much appreciated maybe make sure you have the correct information before creating even more drama.

h
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Old 07-14-2008   #45
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Hobie maybe you were out of town or something we have already been through and past this. We already know it MAY or MAY NOT be Eagle County. We will find out on Monday and if it was not I will make this clear to everyone. Thanks anyway for your help no matter how redundant it is.
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Old 07-14-2008   #46
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
By the way, I don't think it is appropriate to hold a Buzz poster to the standard of newspaper reporting.

surgass's post was very reasonable--just what the buzz is for.

Hobie, go back to your normal daze.
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Old 07-14-2008   #47
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Thank you Basil I have received quite a few private messages with support but few have the courage to post outwardly. I have a great deal of respect for you and Paul and everyone else who has supported the REAL reason I posted in the first place. Thanks again.
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Old 07-14-2008   #48
 
KVBA TV8 Vail weatherman/Colorado Kayaker, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 847
Send a message via MSN to hobie
I have had my wife and two close friends transported and treated by Eagle's EMS and they have always been the best I could ask for.

Basil, Whats your real name? I believe this is your second stab at me.

h
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Old 07-14-2008   #49
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
wow. I cannot believe that you would go to a blog for this. I have intimate knowledge of GCEMS and they are an outstanding system. They have a very thorough CQI system and You should have gone to them first with your questions or concerns and got the facts. IF you could PROVE that there is a breach of duty, THEN and ONLY THEN should you have opened your mouth. Choosing an online and anonymous place to blab your innacurate theories is spineless. AND spouting your biased and emotional theories when it becomes hurtful to the deceased family and to an excellent EMS system without knowing exactly was going on on GCEMS side is ignorant to say the least (and not checking your facts). I joined this community just to say this to you because someone had to.

It's quite obvious that you are a drama queen. Yes, someone died. It sucks. It happens though and it is as natural as childbirth. If you believe in God, then there was nothing that could have been done, because this guy's number was up. It was his time to go. If you get this emotional over the death of a random stranger then how do you even function? My god, buck up woman! Grow a backbone! I literally groaned and rolled my eyes when you wrote that someone had "made you laugh through your tears". WEAK!!!
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Old 07-14-2008   #50
 
e-town, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 274
hobie for president...
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