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Old 07-11-2008   #11
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
Hi Jason, Thanks. I guess I'm very emotional. This was someones family. I was new posting and only wanted feedback. I didn't need someone to tell me that I go to a office and read memos all day. He also implied that I couldn't tell if he had a pulse or not. I spent 4 hours trying to revive this man. I did expect to hear negativity from EMS people directly. I also know that if something ever happens to my family that highly skilled people arrive. I heard from two different people directly involved that this is a problem in Eagle County. This has taken a very emotional toll on me. I feel in my very sole that if things were handled in a more professional manner Justin may have made it. Only God knows. Thanks again.
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Old 07-11-2008   #12
 
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 212
I myself have witnessed a very unimpressive response from EMTs and Paramedics in an emergency where I was part of trying to save a man's life... not in Eagle County, but outside of Portland Oregon. There is an obvious difference between being calm and being incompetent. It inspired me to get my WFR. It's awesome someone with your medical background was there to help, I'm sorry to hear you didn't have the support you needed. I wish you well in dealing with your experience, I know it's not easy.

You posted in the right place. This is a good community of folks. Sometimes we flame one another and give each other a hard time, but mostly when it's not serious. Take care.

Jason
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Old 07-11-2008   #13
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 75
I do work EMS but not in Colorado so i don't know the workings of Eagle county EMS, however there are a few things to consider. Not all ambulances are ALS units. Some are strictly BLS and are operated by basics, or what we have out here, intermediates. I understand how you must have felt when the medics got out of the truck and were acting very cavalirr and moving slow, but they may have been moving faster than you think.
The post prior did ring true that this type of situation is something we deal with, depending on the service, as frequently as once a week. Furthermore, when the call went out to the dispatcher, the EMS unit may have been dispatched as a "traumatic cardiac arrest, bystanders performing cpr". Now i certainly don't speak for myself however i have known people to move a bit slower on traumatic cardiac arrest simply beacuse there is a less than 1% chance of that person surviving. Who knows they may have been dispatched to a drowning and had no idea that CPR was in progress. I can't tell you how many times i have arrived on scene to find out what was actually going on was completely different from the dispatch. However, it does sound like the surrounding community has been complaining about their service and level of care.

A quick comment on intubation. It was addressed earlier some of the difficuties with intubation. You did mention that the patient was vomiting, probably from the compressions which often times does happen, but trying to intubate a patient, without suction, on a patient who has robably just aspirated a lot of water can be almost immpossible.

To be honest, it sounds like an honest efort was made to save this individual. Hind site is always 20/20 and you can beat yourself up over the countless mistakes that were made, but you can always find mistakes in any situation. I know this was someones family member, but there are a lot of factors that go into a rescue. These Medics could have been on their 47th hour of an unfortunate 48 hour shift and could have been runnning calls the whole time.

I'm not trying to make excuses but hopefully offering some other explanations for what you saw. I know you know this but, things are never as controlled in the field as they are in an OR or even an ER. And as cold as it sounds the fact of the matter is, especially for those who work in EMS, sometimes you get them back but most of the time you don't. I still hope that every attempt to save a patent is still made but no matter how hard you try, it simy may not be in the cards. Again to be honest, the cards were not in this patients favor. It sounds like the patient suffered both a traumatic injury as well as a drowning in a remote location with only BLS care for the first, im guessing, 20 minutes. Unfortuneatly the odds were not in his favor.

I was wondering if the medics started a line and pushed any meds? or if they even hooked a monitor u to the patient. Again, if this was a BLS truck they wouldn't have had that capability.

My deepest sympathies go out to all family and friends.
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Old 07-11-2008   #14
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1942
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2
I'm an EMS worker in a county that has had multiple drownings this year. I'm not going to get into a post war on Mt. Buzz but feel free to contact me and I try to answer some of the question that you have.
719-395-9017
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Old 07-11-2008   #15
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
If anyone else has any thing to say with out compassion to this situation realizes that this has caused a great deal of stress on me. I may work in medicine but to me every life is precious. I once worked in pediatrics and had to quit because I could not handle death of a child. This was someone’s child. He may have been 30 but he seemed much younger to me. When I found out he had not lived I was distraught. Even though in my heart I knew. These parents deserved the best care for their son. They did not deserve paramedics to treat this as if he was a waste of their time and this is exactly how they acted. I don't care how long their shift was it is their job and they should not be in the field if this is how they treat the injured or even the dying. I posted on this site for answers on how we should be responding to emergency situations on the river. This was a horrifying act on the EMS'S part in Eagle County and I will not stop until they are held accountable and I do NOT care how many people I piss off. Most do know that this situation was undeniably negligent.

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Old 07-11-2008   #16
 
e-town, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 274
Was it really an eagle county unit? radium is in grand county and I think that they run bls rigs. the second bus could have been eagle county, but I doubt it. All Eagle county ambulances have at least two suction units ( or are supposed to..)
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Old 07-11-2008   #17
 
DENVER, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23
All that I know is that they came from Vail so what county is Vail in? The coroner asked me to send a letter to her but she works in Kremmling. I do know that Kremmling is Grand County. The first EMS was Vail. I'm not sure about the second one. They all knew each other and called the guy in charge "Sarge" and he was the worst one there. He did not know what he was doing at all. Even people standing by could tell this.
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Old 07-12-2008   #18
 
Gypsum, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 221
I usually stay out of these discussions but this one bothers me so I feel I need to speak..
With all due respect!!

Quote:
If anyone else has any thing to say with out compassion to this situation


Seems a lot of what you have said is "with out compassion".. Without knowing the people involved, fallowing up, talking to superiors you are just rambling emotionally.. If there where in fact questionable acts then take them up in the proper way not just bad mouthing behind a key board.. I know nothing of the call, but being a ER nurse I would think you would have a little more professionalism then this, after all isn't that what you are accusing them of?

I don’t mean any disrespect, what you did is very admirable, but remember you as a
Quote:
operating room nurse for 7 years and before that I worked in the ER


you probably have more experience than 99.9 percent Emt’s. You should also know as long as you are doing compressions properly
Quote:
I continued to breathe for "Justin". Although he was not breathing on his own he had good color nail beds continued to breathe for "Justin"
you are getting good profusion and thus keeping the color to the extremities ..


Honestly I am not choosing sides or saying anyone is in the wrong but there is a time and place for every thing and this in "MY OPINION" is not the place.. All I am saying is as a professional (or former professional) "AGAIN IN MY OPINION" YOU should know this forum is not the place to be making a difference if you truly feel there was negligence. Now if your just trying to blow of steam than by all means discuss, but lets not be the one that throws rocks at the proverbial glass house..
I feel for your situation but let’s show a little maturity and consider the big picture…


Flame if you want to!
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Old 07-12-2008   #19
 
Gypsum, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 221
And yes I know its perfusion! Its late!
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Old 07-12-2008   #20
V for Victory
 
9300ft, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 329
Send a message via AIM to SummitAP
Eagle County has two different ambulance services. Was this a WECAD or ECAD ambulance? And why did they respond to a call in Grand County (Radium) that should have gone to a Grand County ambulance out of Kremmling?

WECAD, ECAD, and GCEMS have ALS. Every ambulance has at least one electric suction unit and at least one manual suction unit. Your statements about suction make sense to me.
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