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Old 07-20-2009   #21
 
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Wild Wild West, Colorado
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Wish it were mere laziness. It is actually an organized political campaign, commonly referred to as neo prohibition.

Neoprohibitionists seek to pass laws which prohibit drinking by a proxy approach of preventing any activity done during or after drinking.

A legislative strategy session with the hombrewers could make for an interesting ride down the river.
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Old 07-20-2009   #22
 
denver, Colorado
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we don't need more laws and regulations...we need more personal responsibility and accountability...

What happened to acting reasonably and taking responsibility for our actions? Our overly litigious culture and fear mongering news media have gone way too far in overegulating the public's fear for safety. What's next...mandatory walking helmets...just in case we fall or something falls on us...just in case...can't be too safe!!

neoprohibitionists watch out...if I see you on the river...I'll run you over...smack you upside the head with a turkey leg...slice up your raft with my chainsaw and fire a few warning shots from my legal firearms...but I doubt I'll see you out there as I'm sure you're not part of the boating community nor did you bother to educate yourself about that which you were regulating. At least I'll be sober...heaven forbid I was peacefully enjoying a cool homebrew during my sunny float trip.
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Old 07-20-2009   #23
 
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Knife Fork of the Spoon Paddling Since: 1984
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so I am going to float from Loma to Moab in two weeks without drinking beer.... ok as far as you know
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Old 07-20-2009   #24
 
Fort Collins, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevdog View Post
I'm so tired of stupid laws written by lazy politicians who feel they need to "do something" so they can get there name in the paper.

I believe if it doesn't have a motor, then you can be drunk as a skunk while operating it. Bicycles, Horses, Rafts, hanglider, whatever...

The whole reason behind DUI laws was to keep people from getting drunk behind the wheel and killing other people. Why can't we just keep it at that?
It is still at that, it's all about liability, if you are drunk and rafting and kill some people in your group get ready to pay BIG. That is the risk you take if you booze and paddle, and why the law was changed in the books, it needed more universal peramiters. If you don't like it then move to another country because that's the way this country works. Some idiot kills some people and social pressure dictates that new laws be made/old laws get tweaked.

That said, last week I was talking to a ranger up the poudre while me and a group of friends drank beer. We just got done booze cruising the filter plant as I like to call it and the ranger didn't even say a thing about it, he was really nice. There is no issue to me until they start enforcing the law and I don't see the rangers enforcing the law until drunk people start making trouble.
Don't forget, you can always head down to the capitol and bring your issues up there if you want, you may be suprised by how approachable and rational politicians can actually be. The boating community seems pretty strong in CO and you guys could make a big stink supporting your right to boat intoxicated, maybe even get yourself on the nightly news.
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Old 07-21-2009   #25
 
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We can applaud CO State Senators Dan Gibbs and Ron Tupa for this wonderful piece of legislative dung. Tupa, representing Boulder, is no longer around. But Gibbs, from Silverthorne is around. If you are in his district, get rid of him please.
This law sets out a politician's world view: legislate dubiously and use fines for revenue. There is no public interest in this law as it concerns rafters. Gibbs knows this because I wrote him long ago about it (and Tupa) and copied the letter to the Daily Camera. It is below. Kudos to esingleton56, for his belief in the American system. But it didn’t work that way on this one. My concerns were ignored by both legislators.
Police will not evade their duty to enforce laws. Think of the revenue that can be generated at Boulder Creek alone. As far as staff hiring for the Feds, sorry but there are already rangers at most busy takeouts (see: parking tickets). Extra workload is the cost of a breathalyzer, which will be realized after the first fine is paid.
To the safety nuts who think there is a mild public interest, it does not exist, not with rafts. The Camera critics cite some ludicrous scenarios like a swiftwater rescuer drowning while saving my ‘sorry drunk a$$’ (with pfd in Class II water, no less). The reasoning goes downhill from there.
Any way you look at, a bit of backcountry independence was just silently whittled away.
(PS mlmercer: Bon Jour!)


Senator Tupa:


There is considerable debate among the rafting community on the new BUI law which took effect yesterday and was sponsored by you and Senator Gibbs. Some, including myself, feel this is poor legislation because it casts an overly broad net over boating activities that have virtually no relation to one another. In this case it is jet skiing and rafting. One vessel is hard and fast, the other soft and slow. The law is appropriate for jet skis, which have a propensity to hurt others, while inappropriate for rafts which are often powered by a sole operator and have yet to claim an injury of a second uninvolved party. In short, injuries are unheard of when one is 'run down' by a raft operator. And there is no use for a law that protects oneself from oneself only.


Alternatively, there is healthy criticism that this law serves the purpose of providing extra revenue for certain jurisdictions, such as on Boulder Creek, in connection with tubing. I hope we can agree that this is not a good reason for writing law.


There is some consensus that enforcement of this law will result in a court challenge. Before the river community gets too uptight about this issue, I invite you to explain the reasoning applied to this law and its relation to rafting. Please offer re-assurances that a solo rafter on, say, the upper Colorado class II (replete with authorized PFD, throw rope and other safety equipment) will not be cited for exceeding the consumption of one beer after catching trout.


Proponents of the ambiguous concept of 'safety' have run amok in this legislation. The law prioritizes state interest (citation revenue) over public interest, such as the right to enjoy certain freedoms absent harm on others. Colorado rafters, including myself, believe this would not be difficult to challenge in court using a few simple statistics.


We look forward to your response.
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Old 07-21-2009   #26
 
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conifer, Colorado
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Back to the issue-the easy solution would be for Aire or Downriver to design a single chamber raft series and name it the "Colorado Series"; we would all be law abiding citizens at that point.
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Old 07-21-2009   #27
 
Fort Collins, Colorado
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Jon-O

Did you ever get a response to your letter??
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Old 07-21-2009   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. compassionate View Post
Back to the issue-the easy solution would be for Aire or Downriver to design a single chamber raft series and name it the "Colorado Series"; we would all be law abiding citizens at that point.
And the wheels of progress begin to turn...
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Old 07-21-2009   #29
 
denver, Colorado
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That said, last week I was talking to a ranger up the poudre while me and a group of friends drank beer. We just got done booze cruising the filter plant as I like to call it and the ranger didn't even say a thing about it, he was really nice. There is no issue to me until they start enforcing the law and I don't see the rangers enforcing the law until drunk people start making trouble.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Yea...let's just make everything illegal and let the cops and rangers decide if and when and whom they want to enforce things upon. ROLL EYES
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Old 07-21-2009   #30
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Teleboater: That is a big Nope. To be fair, I did not follow up after sending a hard copy and an email to both state senators. This was August 2008. The only reaction came from the few bizarre commenters from the Daily Camera, which posted the letter online. Feel free to google it.
Thing is, no one takes this stuff seriously until the ticket is issued. It is too often you hear about incomprehensible and unaffordable fines ex post facto.
To that point, I understand the penalties of this BUI law to be the same as the DUI regime. Something to think about in terms of the rationality of these legislators. Gibbs needs to be challenged on this, but I don't live in his district. Anyone know when his term is up?
I'd love to see him defend this in a debate. The snarky 'safety' defense would place him somewhere in between John Ashcroft and Joe McCarthy.
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