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Old 05-23-2007   #11
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by BoulderJason View Post
Upper death is at a healthy level, you guys should def get that when over that way. I got lucky when running it that level a few years ago in a 16 footer. Get video and post it!


i just looked at that.... i wouldnt ever run it... looks way gnarly

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Old 05-24-2007   #12
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Grand Dysfunction, West Slope, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 137
.. second hanz' call on Death. Not sure I'll ever be ready for upper Death although sometimes it looks doable. Opinions, anyone?

Oh my, Jason, you did Death and you lived!! You're the first one I've heard of in years that has done it (and in an inflatable, no less) and lived; thank god! The last time I've seen a kayak float in the water by itself was when someone didn't make it there a couple years ago.... Super Bad!! Hats off to you truly, Sir. Until I get my class VI nuts I'll be putting in just below upper Death. Wow, Jason, holey shnikey...

We have film of upper death (the actual 'Death' rapid) at no-water, which when watching the footage scares me because of the pointy rocks that look like pungy-sticks. There are two series, one at the first landing where the upper laterals fold in and another on the second and lowest portion of the hole. Ouch! I'll go through our hour long footage next couple days, to cut out the good stuff and post that one for you... it's from a hike through the entire barrel section at no-water so we could learn the section. You'll freak when you see what you went over when dry, in case you haven't. The sieves on the left are beyond words.

No problem, Cliff. Yeah, I'm scared of Gore at 2300 too, for your info, because of that darn mortality. Turns out I'm just a class III kayaker, IV rafter and V creaturecrafter, with way more than 10 years on the water. You suppose there is no skill in oreframing Gore after doing it the last six years with over 30 runs there total? I still get nervous, because half the time you kick *ss there and the other half you get your *ss kicked, IMHO. Some of my friends are class V all the way around who understand that Gore is mostly class V, not to mention what it could ~possibly~ be at high water. So if any of them respond or if someone else goes along on a run like this, they ought to be educated, understand the dangers and be ready for it (knowledge, skill, wisdom). Suit yourself with paddling at Gore, please, as we all shall, but do try to keep it on the friendly side. It's all fun and games until you too need a little help somewhere on the river...

SweatyNuts (..starting to like that name because it's excellently gross), thanks for the yank. Needed a good one like that. Also need to get a beverage holder that can take a serious tumbling and still stay connected while maintaining the beverage at its desired level... anyone have any tips other than the dual-orbital cages or proven nalgene bottles? You should still go with us, sweaty, more like soon-ish.

Btw, we might be at Barrel on Monday too, but that depends on how far we get on two boats we're working on and they need to get flex-tough'd.... so we might possibly be there for 3 days of gravy.

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Old 05-24-2007   #13
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 20
The top lateral is key! It filled us with water so we were a 8000 pound floating dump truck plowing down. If that lateral hadn't filled us we would have been f'ed. Luck, I am not the first however. The level was right around 5gs

I am also aware of what the rapid looks like at low water...ugly. The rock forming the bottom hole points upstream with a bunch of water jamming down in. We set up filled with water and had zero control until the bottom. We basically just saw white the whole rapid, I could feel the bottom hole coming and was thinking "the ride ends here" but we plowed through. Would I do it again? prolly not. It took a kayaker to really fire it up!
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Old 05-24-2007   #14
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Dirk, cross at 12 g's. That is sick! Did you run the daddy? Where did you run snake? Far left or do the ferry? Would love to see that vid. Barrells a little low to be spouting and gore at 2300 is just good fun. Call me when it hits 5g and I'll paddle it with you folks. Would love to see you guys firing that shit. I wouldn't say creature crafts are "the only ones who consistently do these runs at fun levels" that's a stretch. I would like to try one sometime and not on those runs at those levels. Be safe out there


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Old 05-24-2007   #15
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I remember seeing legendary rafter Dave russell(i think russell) run barrell at 30k before the dam. Super sick!
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Old 05-24-2007   #16
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Running big stuff, kicking ass, and having fun is cool.

Acting like you are the only one who ever does hard shit or at high levels is retarded.

Beer holding class VI surfing, yeah right. Time to get over how incredibly badass you think you are.

Do what you want to do, let others do what they want to do. No need to try to call people out because you think you are the only whitewater hero on the planet.

Class III kayaker, class IV rafter, and class V creature crafter? What does that mean, that as soon as it gets hard you can't make it through the run unless you have some unflippable boat you tie yourself down to so it doesn't matter if you have a shitty line and get stuck in every hole on the way down?

Whats the next big step? Putting a lazy boy inside a 20ft diameter beach ball, launching yourself down gore at flood and smoking a fatty while your feet are propped up on the cooler? Sounds totally extreme. You could get sponsored with that shit!

I got an idea. Why don't you put the beer down and try to figure out how to style clean lines. Surfing toilet bowl for 6 minutes only proves that your boat is bouyant and that you didn't have a clean line...
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Old 05-24-2007   #17
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The only thing raft3plus is would be a class VI turd.
I have watch you idiots run Gore in the past, no skills!! A monkey could seatbelt themselves in and get down with same lines as you.
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Old 05-25-2007   #18
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Grand Dysfunction, West Slope, Colorado
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Posts: 137
Turd in toilet goes round and round, round and round..

No takers for Gore today, which is alright; Waterlevel is coming down. The left shoulder feeling less than excellent after the last westy trip, so some rehab on that side of this aging body will do nicely today. Shoshone and Barrel this weekend regardless, so we'll see anyone there who can make it past the construction in the canyon. Heard it's a big hassle... Likewise Barrel/Shoshone is down to 4K which is a fun level.


You're right, cross is sick that high. So sick that I threw up before the run and Mark did afterwards, that highwater weekend was surely the most intense yet for my person. This vid is of Darren and I on the last run the last day of that weekend:

Quick shots of mammoth, snakepit and the ferry from the RL side; The sun comes in and it's a little washed out but you can see that snakepit is almost gone, or just a big boil. This was the second day of running it that big so I asked that we portage mammoth and make it just a fun run... and it was.

We usually try to get onto the snakehead and slide off it to the right or pass it on RR altogether. Either result is having to do the ferry but we usually stay right for the holes that are RM to RR thereafter. I sadly don't know their names past death ferry down to sherm's. What is daddy? (Will get that handydandy little rivermap with the names...) Just converted a bunch of 6-8K cross footage that I need to take some smaller vids out of which show each of the rapids... will dig for that footage.

Would be great if Barrel ran juuust a little bigger this weekend but looks like it's going down to 4 and it's all we're going to get. Since Shane (Darren's brother) has his kids this weekend and he lives in New Castle is a big part of why Shoshone and not Gore. Plus, we ordered the fight on sat night, so we'll cruise over there...

And yes you're right as far as 'only' ones.. whoa, I was definitely reaching for it there! We've been going to those places a lot, however, and trying out as many of the lines as possible. Obviously not there all the time to see who else goes (didn't think of that after sniffing glue all day ).

Would love to see you there this weekend and/or at cross too. Reasonable level at cross for being strapped in is 3K-7K; it gets harder at 8-11 and seems to flush out a little after that but gains mega-speed and leaves little time to react.

Deepsouth/HateIt- Undoubtably, the lines run are completely different when strapped down; suddenly every hole gets hit, every doable pourover run.. that is for sure. As you note it takes little/no skill to get strapped in and navigate into a hole. Once you're there though, it is a lot of fun if you know how to surf them, i.e. go from 'getting surfed' to controlling the action and surfing. So the only time I feel badass (while strapped down) is when there is a clean run though holes and around the rocks. When not strapped down a clean run is around the holes and the rocks.

Drinking while doing insane or big water things - hell no! You're right about that sh*t, bad idea! I usually get scared and nervous (like being on stage or in a play) on bigger runs and stomach doesn't do well. Case in point, last time before cross, I threw up. Beer has no purpose in that event and neither a chance of staying in...

Cooler of beer actually is a two-fold phenomenon: It was fully loaded and acts as a counterweight while strapped to the floor; the reward really is in Kirschbaum, where it's finally over. Then can the relaxation and celebration finally begin..

On being the Turd in Toilet Bowl: YESSS, called out! Have gotten surfed against my will in Toilet three times since '01. With many runs that is probably not a terrible ratio. As for that last run, made a bad call which created a Turd. Decided to go facing forward to run it with finesse on the far left, just off that little marker rock. Should have spun around and hucked it backwards instead with the power stroke. Being fatigued towards the end of the run, it was a bad call to make. Dropped into it to stroke forward and the left ore popped off. By the time it's back on I'm in the horseshoe. While making the move back into the middle to get out, others start coming into the Toilet. Then we have two in there, meanwhile I'm being stubborn and not wanting the throwbag figuring I'll get out eventually, but call for it anyway after some time. It's waay less than badass. Maybe the id should be RaftsLikeTurds, Turd3Minus?

Heard of the people getting killed on the river past couple days. Condolences to family and friends; Hats off to all involved in the rescue and let's keep it safe. Much river love.

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Old 05-25-2007   #19
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Raft, The daddy is mammoth. I've ran up to 13k in cross and was wondering how the walmart size holes treated you in that bobber. Sounds like you're getting it done, nice job. I hate rafting as it includes swimming, yet it seems the craft has figured that shit out. Well be safe

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