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Old 06-28-2006   #1
photo editor
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 43

working on a story about the run through yellowstone national park and the ramifications thereof. why does one national park, the grand canyon for instance or grand teton etc. etc. permit boating and another park does not.

i know that no one on this board has done the run as it's illegal as hell, but perhaps someone knows of someone who knows someone who may have taken a look at it and could describe it in a pm. does one run, if one were to run, the grand canyon and black together or just the black. and if one were to contemplate such a run would they put in at 7-mile hole on the grand or the bridge across the yellowstone at the entrance to black canyon.

any info appreciated.


dkrakel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006   #2
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I don't know how to search the threads, but this has come up in the past. If it's in yellowstone, it likely has been run. The thread also spoke to the ramifacations, and logistics. basically, be ready to do it in the dark and have someone to drive a getaway car. Recognize if your caught, equipement confiscation can take place, and monetary fines will happen. The question is then, with so much other good stuff out there, is it worth it?


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Old 06-28-2006   #3
Join Date: Jan 2005
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It has been run in the past. There is a great story about it in Doug Ammons book. They did get busted though.

All boaters should check out this book, great stories.
ryguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006   #4
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Both the black canyon and grand have been run, some groups caught some not. Montana Surf guide book gives descriptions for both runs, as well as poaching advise, at least in the origional publication. I think the park was trying to make them pull the info from subsequent releases.
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Old 06-28-2006   #5
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Find the kayaker hangout in Jackson, and you'll realize that people paddle in the park fairly regularly. Thus, many of the locals are/were pretty pissed at the Montana Surf book because it gave away many of their secrets, and "poach that shit" wasn't taken all that well by the Park Service. Last time I drove through the park with boats on we were questioned a few times, and stared down by many officials.

If you were looking for beta to paddle the river, then you could probably find plenty of info from locals. If you are doing a story with logistics, then I doubt many people will want to give you the beta.

Rendezvous is the place to start.
Kyle McCutchen
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Old 06-28-2006   #6
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Paddling Since: 1992
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Posts: 475
good luck getting anything outta rendezvous & the JH crew. veeeery tight-lipped bunch, them. especially when it comes to YNP. & understandably so -- too much chatter & any more busts just perpetuate the park's hostility to opening up the amazing boating opp's in their backyard.
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Old 06-28-2006   #7
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
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Posts: 321
Jellystone national park definately blows. There's no rhyme nor reason to their decisionmaking, other than at some point someone will make a decision with or without thinking and then they'll adhere to it for the next 6000 years. Thats our government for you. I have one friend that got busted up there and originally they wanted to take all of his stuff, as well as a multi-thousand dollar fine, and ban him from the park for life. He was able to play dumb and get most of his stuff back eventually, sans 500 bones or so. He really was dumb though as he was new to boating and had no idea that stuff was off limits.

Anyway, good luck getting that shit. Some day I might have to get up there...
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Old 06-28-2006   #8
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Found this while I was looking for other stuff. Might help.
Kyle McCutchen
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Old 06-28-2006   #9
Join Date: Sep 2004
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This is classic stuff. Why don't they just shut down the park access to everyone then? Put up some huge fences, save a lot of money in ranger costs, plus then GW could go in there and explore for oil. He's already trying to downsize the forest service, so I figure it won't be long....

My favorite one is #6... WTF? Where do the bear and elk go? Shouldn't we really be getting after them to pack it in and pack it out?

The park found, without evidence, that opening YellowstoneÂ’s rivers had the potential to:

1. adversely impact park wildlife,
2. adversely impact historical and archaeological sites,
3. conflict with other park users,
4. impact vegetation,
5. require infrastructure development,
6. create sanitation hazards, and
7. create safety hazards.
chief throws a coffee mug at his head
The Dude: Ow! Fucking fascist!

Maude Lebowski: Now, what happened to your face? Did Jackie Treehorn do that as well?
The Dude: Ah, no that was the chief of police of Malibu. A real reactionary.
Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2006   #10
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
Yeah, I read just a bit of it, and I couldn't take anymore of it. The proposal was well done, especially for how ridiculous the entire issue is. It did a very good job trying to professionaly show the irony in the fact that a human powered recreational sport isn't allowed because of all of those listed issues, but the multiple machine powered sports (like snowmobiling) are allowed.

My favorite was the parks service argument that kayaking shouldn't be allowed because when the activity is done roadside, it becomes a spectator sport (tourists stop) which isn't allowed in the park because it causes traffic congestion. Three million visitors a year, and they're worried people looking at kayakers will create traffic jams. Apparently the authority figures are really digging deep to keep paddlers banned.

Of course, if the run weren't roadside then we wouldn't cause traffic jams, just hurt the environment by increased erosion. Last I checked, kayaks floated on water...

Kyle McCutchen
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