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Old 06-24-2010   #11
GWS, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 486
Mike Harvey is a great person and while working on the BV features, I saw him out there every day for the entire project. Any company that Mike works for is worth considering.

I also have another friend, Jason Carey. He designed the Glenwood Springs wave. I know he also did the Canyon City wave. I have not been to or heard about Canyon City but the Glenwood wave is sick!. Jason's company's website is

You should consider Jason as well as Mike.

Is the Butte looking for a feature?

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Old 06-24-2010   #12
nmalozzi's Avatar
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by darren View Post
don't know if jason designed that wave. i'd be cautious though of blindly associating, what you call, a bad project with someone trying to make a living. this is is a common thread brought up on the buzz, but calling out an engineer, shop staff, whatever, with shotty work, as you've indirectly done, is bullshit. i don't think this was malicious, but gotta be careful.
why is it bullshit? i don't know who made what, and honestly don't care. my point is we bash boat/paddle/oar/clothing/etc companies and products constantly on this site. is that bullshit too? it's an internet forum, people are going to eagerly express their opinion. just that nature of the beast.

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Old 06-24-2010   #13
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 31
yep, bash all you want, as long as you've got some facts behind what you're saying. you wouldn't be too thrilled if i wrote that nick malozzi does crap graphic design work**, without knowing if it was your work or not, would you?
** never seen nicks work and don't have anything to say about nicks work
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Old 06-24-2010   #14
nmalozzi's Avatar
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 330
i don't think anybody would be happy about it, but it is what it is. whether or not a wave/hole/feature sucks or not is a matter of opinion. just like whether, or not you like the new xyz boat, or my design work. my point here is people are gonna spout their opinions. if they are bunk people will realize that. no need to get all butt hurt about it. if you don't like his opinion just offer up yours and drown out his complaints.

back to the topic at hand though.
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Old 06-24-2010   #15
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Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by DanOrion View Post
Dude, you just talk shit about everyone. It's getting old. We all know that everyone gives you asshurt. Time to can it.

Can I help you?? Who else is it that is included in that "everyone" that you speak of.

I talk shit about rep because THEY DESTROYED THE BEST HOLE AROUND

I will continue to talk as much shit about them as much as I possibly can. They had ONE THING they needed to do with the CCC WW park...NOT FUCK UP THE HOLE... they suck SO BADLY that they can't even do the one thing that they PROMISED that they wouldn't.

Oh yeah, I paddled up there again tonight... still junk. Every level I've been in there at, junk.

As for everyone else that I talk shit about... I'm curious who you mean. I'm the first one to give a positive review about a company/ product that works well & recommend products that are worth buying. A company that can't even not fuck up something that they said they wouldn't... sorry, I'm going to keep spreading the word every chance I get.

If you had a contractor come to your house to put on a new roof, and you had a nice big picture window, and you told him not to break the picture window... pretty easy thing right? Now if he broke the window, and also didn't do a good job on the roof... what would you do?
Discover Denver, stay there!
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Old 06-25-2010   #16
Evergreen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
River Restoration seems to do have hit a few home runs.

Mcglauhlin White Water is another company, they did the Olympic course on the Ocoee as well as the Bladder wave.
McLaughlin Whitewater - About Us

Here is another vote for Mike Harvey he has done a great job with all of the features in the Ark valley. The new feature in BV is awesome.

Not a fan of the Charllotte USNWC, millions of dollars to create medicore features, this was a Scott Shipley, REP project. I cant speak for the slalom aspect of the park it seems to be really good. But the rest of it I found to be disappointing to say the least. I feel like this project should have been their crown and jewel. Kind of like a Mecca for kayakers as BV/salida is.

I did some boating in Golden the other day and noted many changes. Rodeo hole is pretty cool right now not as steep green water. It may end up being too shallow at low flows. Bleacher hole would not hold you. Library hole is really narrow feeling and not as retentive. I scratch my head why they have not tweeked the hole below library hole. It has the best gradient in the whole park.

Its too bad that we cant import some of the European designers over here to build for us, they seem to have this stuff nailed.
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Old 06-25-2010   #17
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Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 844
This is in defense of no one in particular, I just felt it necessary to add to the 'debate'.

For all that are beating up on various companies, realize that fluid flow is a very difficult medium to understand and manipulate. Water and air are similar in how they flow, and can be computer modeled with limited success. Most computer models are good for identifying high/low pressure points, but not too well at hard numbers. Hence why large structures in air and water flow, need to undergo many hours of wind tunnel/water table testing, before they are actually built. The cost of making a scale model and flow testing of every section of river being 'adjusted', is an expense that no town wants to pay for just a play park. Hence there is some trial and error associated with park designs. It is just the nature of the beast. You can either spend money up front for testing, or money to tweak the design in the field. Condemning any one company or another for working on a design after the initial install is wrong. It has to be expected after the feature is evaluated for high, medium and low flows. Maybe the high flow moved something around, maybe rocks and sediment flowing down stream has blocked an area. It will happen to both the seasoned vet as well as a younger company. Look at Siedels Suckhole and Sunshine Falls, both are huge rock features and both were changed by the high flows in 95. Most park features are made with a lot smaller rocks then what make Siedels and Sunshine.

The argument for bringing designers from Europe over here is just as wrong. They are at no advantage and are actually at a disadvantage what with travel and lodging expenses. After the features are installed, they are not going to pop over to see how the feature is at various water levels.
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Old 06-26-2010   #18
lookout mnt., Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 148
this is the second or third time i have heard someone talk about europe having better play parks, why are they better. hopefully i can get over there to see for myself.

also, for the folks that have emailed me about ww parks, i am just curious as to who the different design companies are, and what they have built, i ain't involved in any ww parks.

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