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Old 06-12-2010   #101
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According to 9news, Ryan has been charged with "obstructing goverment operations." Whatever that means... | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Rafting guide arrested after rescuing teen girl

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Old 06-12-2010   #102
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Originally Posted by craven_morhead View Post
2. Depending on how fast things move through the system with the PD, Krueger may not be the one to talk to about dropping the charges. It may have already gotten handed off to local prosecutors if it was charged under a municipal code, or, if it was charged under the colorado statute, the JeffCo DA's office.
Just for clarity, it's Clear Creek, not Jeffco. I would think at this point it's the DA you need to talk to. Couldn't hurt to contact the sheriff though, if nothing else I would think that this would be good for them to hear our frustration in regards to this & similar situations.

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Old 06-12-2010   #103
Aspen, Colorado
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Originally Posted by earthNRG View Post
According to 9news, Ryan has been charged with "obstructing goverment operations." Whatever that means... | Denver | Colorado's Online News Leader | Rafting guide arrested after rescuing teen girl
It would seem to be a wrongful arrest if that is what they are charging him with. He probably did disobey the orders of a law enforcement officer, but I doubt he obstructed anything. The rescue crew could go about their goal of helping the girl whether he was with her or not. My guess is this case will go away for lack of merit. One hot head cop had to force his will, and this is what resulted.
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Old 06-12-2010   #104
reality, Colorado
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First, I have to say that yes I just signed up just to respond to the thread. After looking at some of the pics from the media I am shocked that the state has not come up and torn AVA’s gear room apart. You can clearly see the vest the girl is in is torn, and has been for some time, and that her helmet is to big for her (Most of you must have missed that looking through your own rightness.) It is clear to me that AVA put BIG money into their new building and forgot about training, safety, and gear. This is the luckiest girl in the world. What kind of guide saves a 3-tour war vet (7news) that looked like he could stand up and walk out of the water before going after the 13 year old girl? Or was the guide just saving him/herself so they could get their split of the tips for the day? I think that once you have lost your costumer, she’s gone for 45 min and found by the FD a mile down stream you have done enough damage for the day. Go get your boat in Golden and let the Pros do their job.
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Old 06-12-2010   #105
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Oh no you didn't

Oh snap!

I guess the phase "first and fasted" doesn't mean anything. When you start pulling people back into your raft. You start with the ones you can reach first. It's as simple as that.

I'll pray for you. Poser...
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Old 06-13-2010   #106
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What Ryan did worked out this time but how often do police, fire fighters and first responders have to deal with idiot would-be hero's trying to "help out" and putting everyone involved at even more risk. This guy made a judgment call that was correct, he had the skill to swim the river and reach the girl. He also disregarded a lawful order not to do what he did. What would the discussion be if things didn't work out and he got swept down the river, put rescuers at risk fishing him out, and diverted resources away form the girl? Lastly, how much of the reason for his ticket was what he did as opposed to his buddy bumping chests and making a scene with the fire department guy?
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Old 06-13-2010   #107
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Mescal, I can't deny your point. However, it's time that police, fire fighters and first responders recognize that they are woefully unprepared and completely outclassed in river rescue operations by professional raft guides and advanced kayakers. In a case like this, the outcome should help determine the punishment. If you're a prepared, experienced responder and end up helping the situation, the cops and FD should offer thanks and high-fives at the end. If you're a redneck who sets his beer down, says, "watch this!" and proceeds to need another rescue then by all means, it's off to jail with ya.

Poser, Don pretty much handled your ass, but one point that should be distinguished is that I don't believe it was Ryan who's raft flipped. My understanding (that could be incorrect) is that Ryan was guiding a different raft and was one of the more experienced guides responding to the situation, i.e he didn't lose anyone or have to opportunity to choose who to help first. Also, if you hate posers that much, I'd think you'd be willing to stop being one yourself with your anonymous handle. Poser...

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Old 06-13-2010   #108
Dillon, Colorado
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Hello Poser, I wish you had the courage to list your name, and your expertise in this situation. Were you a raft guide in a previous life, a fire fighter, or do you have absolutely no knowledge of the training that members of the rafting community go through. The accusations that AVA's guides lack training is completely unfounded. Have you, or did go through a guide training program? I can tell you, AVA's is not taken lightly, and that all guides working for AVA are professionals. Ryan, is an outstanding guide, and he was on the trip because of his knowledge and professionalism. He wasn't out there "so (he) they could get (his) their split of the tips for the day." Your basis for this erroneous statement comes from obviously your true lack of professionalism and respect for members of the rafting community.
Your statements regarding the gear the girl was wearing are all based on what you saw on TV, not in person. Clear Creek is a shallow and sharp creature, and a swim in it could cause one's equipment to become torn. Is it not possible that the PFD was torn as the result of contact with a sharp rock? Could this girl not have taken off her helmet while she sat on the rocks once out of the water, and not put it on correctly once again. You need to think before you make accusations. I also clearly heard on the TV broadcast that the girl was found downstream, sitting out of the water, by a AVA van/bus driver. I think you need to get your facts correct before you open your mouth again.

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Old 06-13-2010   #109
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There are good people on both sides of this that were all supposed to be working towards the same goal. What's important is that this type of thing doesn't happen again. It is completely inappropriate for professional rescue groups get into a confrontation of this level. Anyone involved should be ashamed of the way they acted, their actions could have harmed the victim by delaying action and tying up resources that should have been devoted to the rescue. What Ryan did was completely the correct way to go. Arresting him was a very poor decision that could lead to others delaying a call to 911. The unfortunate reality is that when any Colorado county's EMS arrives on scene they are in charge, it's the law, wrong, but it's the law. Instead of the Buzzards calling everyone and each other douche bags we talk about how to avoid this situation.

People on both sides of this (rafting companies & C.C. EMS) are talking, planning meetings and hopefully some joint training sessions as well. The EMS/outfitter relationship on Clear Creek has actually greatly improved in recent years, AVA being one of the companies fostering this. I truly hope this to be an isolated incident caused by a lot of people being a little to concerned for the safety of a little girl.

Joe K's 1st paragraph above pretty much nailed the problem, but we need to learn to work with each other not without.

For those of you who don't seem to know where you are on Clear Creek. If you are downstream of the Hwy 119 & 6 intersection you are in Jeffco. However, for calling 911 we drive upstream into Clear Creek county for signal if our trip is above Black Rock. And whoever thought that girl could walk downsteam to a bridge, you obviously have never been there. Knowing where you are should be an important part of any outdoor adventure, buy a map.
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Old 06-13-2010   #110
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Posers, we're likely friends (I'm making the assumption that you're local?), so no offense is intended, but how is it that you can't see the other side of this at all?

When it comes to the river, I have a lot of respect for the local SW team, but the "pros" are the guys who live in the water, sorry. It's obvious that the one who screwed up was a different guide, and Ryan came down the river (or the road, I don't know) to try & help. The FD was called, and if they got to the site where the girl was first, great, they can rescue her. The main point of contention here is the fact that the guide was arrested for swimming when he was told not to swim, as he would become another victim. If you don't understand that a guide that lives on the river, or any of us that spend our time out there knows how to swim across a 12 foot wide creek, you've got ZERO business being involved in this conversation. (or river rescue for that matter)

This thread is FULL of overly polarized comments about how the FD sucks or that AVA or the guide was out of line, can't people see that it's somewhere in the middle & they should have worked together to solve the problem?
They're BOTH wrong for how they dealt with this, but the idea of arresting someone for trying to help when, by profession, training, and reality, they're perfectly qualified to do so shows an inability to assess a situation.
Our local Sheriff has become a laughing stock on 100's of websites now & we look like some podunk community that doesn't have a clue.
Jed, just saw your post after I posted, well said.

Oh, and Keck... we don't need some gaper from Tejas interjecting himself into local matters... pipe down boy! (briefly? whatever, poser!)

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