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Old 03-29-2007   #21
Dreamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 230
mass flotilla

Mass flotilla this spring... we are not breaking any laws, the sheriff is on our side. We have the right to float that shiat.

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Old 03-29-2007   #22
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 148
You like to float on shit? Weirdo.

I will destroy you.
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Old 03-29-2007   #23
oarbender's Avatar
ww guide/ frame builder/welder, mobile fabrication gig
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
I will do some looking, but the next few are going to be wicked busy.

If any one has the time, the commercial outfitter was cannibal outdoors, or outfitters, or something like that.

also, I know , there was a float like your talking about. the lake fork went form having 4-7 boats, on an average day to....well, quadtriple that....and then some. I missed it, was in Idaho.
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Old 04-01-2007   #25
Bozeman, MT
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 106
What is a Massive crew of boaters going to accomplish? except a really dangerous scene when we all try to eddie out above the fence. A few years ago their was a fence right above the bridge before the confluence. We all came way to close to washing into the fence. A last second effort to scramble and grab branches barely saved our lives. We should charge his ass with attempted murder! Dave Moss is definately trying to start shit, he's had serious beef with boaters on Willow creek and the the Elk River. We don't need to prove anything, because the put in and take out are legit. Moss is creating an unnecasary scene just to spite the entire boating community. This issue really pisses me off, and we need to figure this out another way. If we rally a bunch of people and make a scene he'll have some really good evidence of boaters tresspassing on his land(He will seriously hike out their and take pictures). He snaps pics of Bucking Rainbow Outfitters all season, to try and capture a boat pinned or someone walking on the shore. I think we need to rally the boating community, and talk with Moss and his lawyer, and figure something out before we create a scene. If he's not willing to talk maybe the help of AW, and their legal expertise will do the trick.
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Old 04-01-2007   #26
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steamboat springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 199
i read this post earlier last week, and thought that this sounded strangely familiar to the stories i was hearing last year. i just now noticed that this post was actually started last spring and had been recently bumped back to the top. is the fence still an issue, or has it been removed? has dm calmed down since the sheriff has had to intervene.

i remember the first time i paddled willow about five years ago. dm pulled up at the takeout just after we had taken out. he was pretty angry. from what i remember, he was yelling at us because he thought we were parking there for a take out on the elk. i really don't think he realized that we had just paddled across his property on willow. he said he owned the elk river bank beside the road and didn't want us crossing his land.

if i remember right, it seemed that the main reason he didn't want us parking there was because he thought that fishermen would see cars parked there. then they would think it was ok for them to park there also, and walk across his property to go fishing on willow, or the elk. i don't know if this was the first run in with him, but nobody told me about the angry landowner before that.

does anyone know if the county has fee ownership of the land that the road is on, or does the county just have an easement to cross his land? from what i understand if the county just has an easement, then you could be tresspassing by walking on the road, because you are touching his land. it is basically like the river. if you float or drive over his land, then you are ok. if you get out of your boat or car and are touching his land, then you are tresspassing.

if the county has fee ownership of the land that the road is on, then they have a right of way that is some given number of feet wide. if you are on this land, then you are not tresspassing. if there is no way to take out there without crossing or touching his land, then we should just use the take out downstream on the elk. if we can take out there without touching his land, then we should push the issue.

my brother does title work for properties here in steamboat. if he can find some free time, i will try to get him to take me to the courthouse and research the property there. it would be nice to know what the deal is with the road. this would give us a better idea of what our rights really are at the takeout.

i haven't boated willow in about three years, but would love to go again. keep me posted if some people want to go.
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Old 04-01-2007   #27
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 148
I don't believe the county has free ownership- DM's brother is the actual owner. This is why, had he not put up the fence, we would remain in our boats after Willow and boat straight through the lower elk to a public take-out.
I will destroy you.
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Old 04-01-2007   #28
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steamboat springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 199
so are there now two fences? the first post on this thread says that the new fence built last year is 1 or 2 miles upstream of the takeout. i was under the impression that this was the one that people needed to climb around and thus were forced to tresspass. is there another fence right at the takeout that you have to climb over also?

i don't remember any fence on willow last time i was there, but like i said it has been a few years since i last paddled willow.
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Old 04-02-2007   #29
Bozeman, MT
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 106
There was a fence about 50ft upstream of the bridge near the Elk's confluence about 3 years ago, this fence also forced boaters to trespass on the Mosses' property. I'm unsure of this years fence status, didn't get a chance to catch it last year.

It does appear that this thread is from last year. Does anyone know if the issue has been resolved, or know about the current status of fences placed on the run?
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Old 04-02-2007   #30
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Englewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
I did some poking around and turned up this article written by the attorney who represented Cannibal:

Colorado Report - The Right to Float Makes New Waves in Colorado - Water Resources Committee Newsletter Archives - Vol. 5, No. 5 - August 2002

She also co-authored a law review article on the right to float in Colorado, but it's not available online (at least for free). Anyone interested can find it in the lower level of the DU law library in the Spring 2002 issue of the Denver Water Law Review.

Join up, suckas.

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Kierkegaard
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