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Old 04-14-2006   #41
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 116
Hey paul you don't by chance work at Platte River do you?

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Old 04-15-2006   #42
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 33
We have cheaper gas prices than anywhere else in the Western world because we get a percentage of our oil from domestic production... others dont have that luxury.

An energy shortage cannot be attributed to cars because they use 1/3 less gas than cars did in the 1970's. Our refrigerators use 1/3 less energy today too. Maybe the energy crisis is related to the millions of cell phones, computers, ipods, blackberries, palm pilots that have to be charged!

Food for your mind.

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Old 04-16-2006   #43
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 71
You can charge alot of Ipods w a gallon of gas, but it still only gets me 15 miles, and I drive around 25k per yr.

Gas isn't going anywhere soon. I'm suprised that no one has mentioned the technology that exists which converts coal into oil. South Africa has been using this process as their primary source for oil for a long time (since an international embargo existed, they had no other way to get fuel). I understand that plants are already being designed and considered. Planning is already underway; they say that it will still be a good 10 yrs though before we start pumping this product into our vehicles. I've heard that MT alone has enough accessible coal to provide the US w fuel for many yrs. Supposedly the process costs around $60/barrel.

I'm guessing that we will be pumping gas for a long time to come.
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

- Ronald Reagan
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Old 04-16-2006   #44
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 148
Way to go Ikayaknboard - too oftens dissenters to the greenies views here post once and never rebut.

Just a coupla poins briefly. I keep seeing the $200 p/b figure being used as what's neccessary to support new forms of oil extraction. This, however, is not the case. Take, for example, the sand oil reserves of Alberta. Here alone, the estimates put us in the 175 billion barrel range. These reserves can be supported w/ a $60 p/b price (give or take). Granted that's not $30 p/b, but, these types of sand reserves are guetimated to be in the hundreds of billons-of-barrels range in North America alone. Effectively utilizing these would give us time enough to allow technology to advance to the point where the "next type" of deposit can be cost effectively extracted.

Secondly- oil prices and profits have nothing, i repeat, NOTHING to do with either the oil industry or current administration's so-called greed. Oil price is a function of supply and demand as we all must agree. The world, today, has a much broader consumer base for crude than at any time in it's history.

..and many of these nations, such as China and India will be growing their consumption at a rate far greater than the U.S. Combine that with the fact that we just recently surpassed the 50% import ratio vs. domestically produced crude and we pay prices which are more closely tied to the the global-market's. More demand + same supply = higher prices.

Now, let's also make note, for the record, that the average profit per dollar of gas sold by a U.S. company in or most recent "eggregiously profitable" quarter was $.10- ten cents. Whereas the average federal and state tax per dollar of gas is $.25- twenty five cent. For all of you English majors out there that's TWO-AND-A-HALF times the profit margin for the big bad oil companies, and all they do is find it, drill it, transport it and refine it.

I am not a big-oil lobbyist. I do belive the answer will one day be combustible hydrogen (never underestimate a consumer base's desire for technological familiarity) but until we find a way to produce this without putting in more energy than the net product we're stuck with oil. And therein lies my basic belief that it's not so bad. We are the most comfortable, advanced and pruductive generation in the world's history because of what some many of you pretend to hate.
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Old 04-16-2006   #45
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Paddling Since: 2000
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Posts: 75

here's an article that attributes the rise in gas prices to higher cost of ethanol and reduced use of MTBE. i too am a geek.
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Old 04-16-2006   #46
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Posts: 989
The simple solution:

we need to get all the mad scientists available, lock them in bathrooms with stuff to fix over there heads...eventually one will fall, hit his head on some porcelain and come up with the flux capacitor. Problem solved.

so enough about about that water? much oil do you have to burn to come up with 1.21 gigawats?
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 04-16-2006   #47
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1
I'm also glad there were some dissenters here. I agree that huge SUV's with soccer moms driving their perfect 2 kids around make me crazy but there is a way to fix this. Whether there is a shortage or not, the rising gas prices are an excellent way to use capitalisitc economics for a means to an end. I love capatalism (with controls) because it made our country what it is today and it can fix this problem.
As prices go up, by governement taxes or what not, the demand will decrease as people will realize that it just isn't worth it to take the excursion on the commute. When this happens the demand for Excursions will also go down and car manufacturers and designers will lose money if they don't adapt to the changing market. The reason why the percentage of cars made are SUV's is because that's what the public demands and thus allows Ford/Chevy whatnot to make money.
Think about this. If the price of gas went up, I prefer by taxation so that the funds could be spent on alternative energy research, high enough that people stopped wanting to drive huge SUV's then the car company's would start producing what the people wanted. Again, that's how they make the most money. The market is amoral and blind. People that want to make the most money must follow the market or someone else who does follow it will put them out of business.
We vote by our purchases and obviously we have voted to drive huge cars because that is what is made. I will admit that this site is probably not voting the same but again, look at the car you drive and see if it matches what you want the market to produce.
No one will be forced to drive a more energy efficient vehicle when that vehicle becomes as cost effective as the current automobiles just like no one had to force people to start driving cars instead of using horse and buggy.
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Old 04-17-2006   #48
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 109
Wow! I had no idea any of you boater scums had brains. Great Thread!

I have a feeling that, as always, economics will eventually rule. Our choices of energy sources and consumption will be controlled by supply, demand - money. Conservation can do a lot. But we won't conserve until we have to monetarily. People can be wonderful individuals and even great in small groups, but as a whole we do act pretty much exactly like bacteria.

For those of you comitted to conservation and limiting your energy usage there is a great article entiled "The Energizer" you should read on page 52 in Discover magazine (February 2006 issue). There are many things you can do to limit your individual dependance on fossil fuels and coorporate control, but they come at a price. They require a significant change of lifestyle and a lower standard of living.

See ya on the river. I'll be in the Red X-Terra w/ the rocket box or the Silver Dodge 4X4 V-8 Truck with the cab-over camper. Someone's got to deal with the last gallon of gas. It may as well be our kids instead of our grand kids.
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Old 04-17-2006   #49
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
X-terra? Holy shit, dude, you're extreme. I'll be glad you're at the takeout when I need you to bust out that big first aid big it needs a recession in the back door that you can see from the outside.

And that big (useless) rack...makes me hard. Red, though? Yellow's WAY sweeter.

Those waterproof seats, too...make it so easy to clean up that spilled latte.

If only I was so easily marketed to...I could be the proud owner of a gas-guzzling gen-X piece of shit.[/i]
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 04-18-2006   #50
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
You're such an asshole sometimes, BSOE.....

Then again, ya've prolly already figured out that's the reason most of us around here luv ya'!

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