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Old 06-08-2011   #1
Nederland, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
Why are the GC dates I applied for up for lottery again??

Why are the GC dates I applied for, up for the lottery again? I thought if the winner did not take/pay for their winning launch it went to the next in line. If I applied for a date on the first lottery why is it back up in the next lottery?? Is this why the dates are not getting taken and river launches are going unfilled?

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Old 06-09-2011   #2
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Total agreeance in the questioning here!!!.....lookin at a few dates up for grabs- again - that I had applied for too. Emailed Steve Sullivan and Tom Martin several months back asking why this is happening and that there's been past lotteries that they DID go down the next guy in line.....wondering what the proposed solution is. Chaps my hide it does....... hell, if your gonna apply and you darn well win the thing- you better darn well use it.

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Old 06-09-2011   #3
kikii875's Avatar
Orem, Utah
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 207
They do not have a 'backup' now. If the person that wins doesn't pay within a certain time or if they pay, and then end up cancelling is all goes up for auction again. Your tax dollars at work. It gives them something more to do and justify their jobs.
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Old 06-09-2011   #4
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Did it used to be custom to have a backup system? I know for a fact that last Oct 2010, they did a backup...but may have been a unique circumstance? Sucks cause this is about the 3rd time I've seen "my" launches go up for lottery again....accept I can't get the time off work for most now. These would've been full trips with respectable experienced and self geared rigs. My tax dollars outta pay for a few more phones to make some calls to the backup list. Hmpf.
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Old 06-09-2011   #5
rivermanryan's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 580
I think I know the answer, but...

I have a late November launch. I took it because I won it. However, some of the new lottery dates are much more attractive. Is there any process to try to win an earlier date, but then fall back on my later date if not? Seems like if earlier dates go unused, it would be of no consequence to the NPS to let me try for an earlier date.
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Old 06-09-2011   #6
eddy hopper's Avatar
DURANGO, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 79
My guess is whoever won that date paid for it but later canceled and lost the 400 bucks. We had a trip this spring where two of us won a launch, we canceled one of the dates and a third person in our party was called for the date we just canceled. So they are going down the list and calling next in line. Good luck on this upcoming lottery. There are some great dates on it.
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Old 06-09-2011   #7
BCJ's Avatar
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 523
There is no more "waiting list". If you don't win in the lottery, you're back in the general public. Cancellations get put out for follow-up lottery.

That's my understanding.
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Old 06-09-2011   #8
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
edddy hopper- was your friend's lucky call from NPS received in a pick-up lottery ran this spring? or in the yearly lottery in feb? or sometime last year for a 2011 launch?

I understand the same to be true as buckoff stated....although positivley know that they can and do, at their discretion, do a down the list call effort.
Just sucks to see 'your dates' come and go several times...the first time-original lottery ya didnt win it, the second time- pick up lottery- didnt get it either, the 3rd time- can't get the time off within the 4 weeks 'til launch.....and the darned launch goes without being used more than likely!

Just want some answers and even better....some good solutions.
I know the utahrafters and rafting_grand_canyon forums follow this stuff closely as well....and the same pondering and complaint goes on unresolved.

I wonder if the original Feb lottery winners having to pay $400 down within 48 hrs would decrease the couch and armchair rafters that win a launch of which many times will end up being canceled/unused? Seems folks would have more invested in it other than a few months of bragging rights and popularity having obtained "a Grand Launch" that will end up not coming to fruition in , obviously, quite a few cases.

I'ld even, lord help me, be willing to pay an extra $10 in yearly app/lottery fees to have a guarantee that a back up list/ phone call policy was put into place. From my info gathering/questioning- I've gathered that the back up list phone calls are NOT regular practice. Possible I'm wrong on that though.
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Old 06-09-2011   #9
Evergreen, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 129
i wonder if it has anything to do with "added assurance" as described on pg 18 of this FAQ: http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...ttery_FAQs.pdf
Seems like that would make some sense. Call the people on the old wait list and offer these dates if they have been canceled from the 1st lottery...
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Old 06-09-2011   #10
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Good point/nice reminder on the logistics/added assurance factor. I'ld be tickled to know that the NPS phones are being picked up and dialed out to anyone/everyone on any type of wait list- old style/in transition list or some type of new yearly one. Just kills me to see dates/launches appearing to be thrown around or thrown out like door prizes. Its not about the braging rights, or 3 weeks of escape or drinking, or serious photo op, or ego etc....its about making sure those precious days/launches are being exposed to those that cherish and honor the rare opportunity to enter and join/live the liquid movement of the Canyon. I do know there are some heartfelt and sincere NPS folk down there that understand and are working for this concept.

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