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Old 03-27-2005   #11
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
To all that bitch and moan about not getting the info on the newly founded creeks, HERE IS MY ADVICE

GO FUCKING FIND IT YOURSELF!!! These guys fucking study topo maps and hike miles to find this shit. They work their asses off to get the honor of exploring a new run. GIVE THEM SOME FUCKING RESPECT!!! I have seen ToddG come back from long trips that they didn't even get to paddle because they spent the whole time hiking in dense forests to find it. Then when they got there they found out it was to low or it was loaded with wood. Then they will even take the time to clean it out and wait for the right moment.

If you want these runs so bad...then exert as much energy as these guys do to study and find them. When you actually do something of this magnitude maybe you will understand where they are coming from. And when they are able to finish the long hard work that they put into the First D they will give you info of the directions to a beautiful resource. They will tell you about hazards, and levels and what to expect when running the creek. You should by all means THANK THEM!!!

Thanks ToddG, I can't wait to run this shit with you.

Yours truly.
Annoyed with people who expect the world to be handed to them without any effort!

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Old 03-27-2005   #12
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
Nathan and Mark, thanks for understanding.

Nathan makes another good point. It takes a lot of time to do a trip writeup and describe a new run, make sure we are giving out the correct information and flows, etc. I just spent 5 hours this weekend at a computer typing up a trip report for everyone else to read and enjoy. So please, instead of complaining about what we don't tell you why don't you thank us when you see us for what we do take the time to tell you. Shit, I could be snowboarding right now.

Kyle McCutchen
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Old 03-28-2005   #13
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
missing the point????

Ok my post was an attempt at a joke and apparently some people just didn't get it...

I believe the issue at hand in the first post is that unless as paddlers we all get together in finding the rivers and streams that are navigable and their locations listed as navigable waterways in accordance with USCG Inland Waterway Reg's. Bills like SB62 and the silly laws that state I am trespassing when I stand in a stream after one of my many swims will never be over turned. It was forward thinking like his that made private beach access a thing of the past in many locations.

As far as taking advantage of all the hard work done by the people that are getting these first descents, well I personally am still trying to learn to roll let alone not flip while out paddling on Decker's ,by the time I am able to "Take Advantage of others hard work" more than likely those places that are being found today won't be able to be run any longer due to urban sprawl or a new ski resort or fishing lodge will own all the property around it and anyway as a new paddler any section of stream I go down is a first descent for me.

As for the Tao comment... Who out there doesn't want to be like him? Balls of brass, In magazine's, desigining boats, a video star, traveling on our dime and getting PAID to do it!!!
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Old 03-28-2005   #14
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 120
I hope some day you end up as cool as tao, with his big brass balls. I heard he even lets supreme ass kissers even touch them, maybe some day you'll be so lucky. As for Todd G. Nice work finding these runs homey, Most boaters will never understand the amount of work that goes into finding new runs that no one else has discovered.
As for Parkito, after you've logged a couple years pouring over topo maps and hauling wood out of creeks you'll understand why it's ok to let some things remain a secret. I'm sure by the end of the summer we'll all know where treasure canyon is anyway, I seriously doubt that not being able to inventory the two creeks your talking about will have any drastic consequences to your work. If you where doing your work properly you could assertain from any topo maps of the state that the two rivers your so concerned about have over 50 cfs in them, and as all boaters know, anything is navigable. Don't get cocky cause you think your doing the world a favor. Todd could have not posted any info on either of these creeks but what fun would that be. It kept your board ass busy reading through it.
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Old 03-28-2005   #15
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Lakewood, Colorasta
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 843
Yeah. . . yeah. . . yeah. . .blah. . . blah. . . blah. Ragdolly still deserves props for the Surf Punks reference. Had to bust out my old vinyl copy of My Beach and rock out a little. Ya'll need to lighten up, give the old boy a break. . . have a cheetoh.
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Old 03-28-2005   #16
ski/kayak bum
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 460
Parker I'm with you....I hope everyone in the great state of CO is doing well.

My Two cents-First Decents are bullshit
People have been transporting and hunting on waterways forever....let me say this again....someone has already been on your socalled first D. Kayaking is so appealing to me for a number of reasons but the best two are the brothership that kayakers feel for each other....example (i moved to socal and people are wierd here, you never know who is a creep, i started talking through boof to some guys about boating and guess what they invited me up and let me sleep on the couch, only boaters would do this for each other) and the other is being able to have fun and pushing myself mentally and physically without the competitive crap associated with other sports, its a far cry from the football which i got totally burnt out on. the whole idea of first decents isnt condusive to brotherhood or being non-competitive. guys from cb and gunny put there egos in check and welcomed me into the boating world by showing me how to be better, even when i was busy LOSING last years SPORT class at the gunny whitewater fest. MY HOME HOLE, they were giving me great tips, even the NONLOCALS were helping me out. imagine if when you were starting out and noone would give you beta, nimby(not in my back yard) in effect in kayaking. we all love the "bible" "crc". what is that book all about, info on stuff you havent experienced. if those guys had decided to keep that stuff to themselves???

so fuck first decents just have fun and pass on the legacy. dont do it for the "notariety(sp)". boaters are good people, we pack our trash out and we are low impact, does it make this secret creek some how not so good if others know about it. I say it makes it better. and if first decents are so important then run something that noone else has had the balls to do, not something you found first and decided not to tell anyone about it.

I havent really gotten into surfing here because they all seem to be about themselves. what a shame for a guy who loves the water as much as i do.


P.S. I bet these are the same guys who work in the industry or want sponsorships for what they do but complain when they get paid six bucks an hour or cant get anyone to "hook them up" with money or boats. the industry is dependant on new boaters and word of mouth, not your "first D" or "secret" creek remaining secret.
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Old 03-28-2005   #17
ski/kayak bum
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 460
"I seriously doubt that not being able to inventory the two creeks your talking about will have any drastic consequences to your work. If you where doing your work properly you could assertain from any topo maps of the state that the two rivers your so concerned about have over 50 cfs in them, and as all boaters know, anything is navigable. Don't get cocky cause you think your doing the world a favor. "

if you know matt then you know that this statement is complete bullshit. if you know how to read topo maps then you also know that you CANT ALWAYS TELL what does or doesnt have 50cfs in it.

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Old 03-28-2005   #18
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
Never Said I wanted to be ""COOL"" like Tao just said I wouldn't mind getting PAID to kayak and have the nerve to at least do a drop or two...

Gave up on tryin to be cool 15 years or so ago...

And if its true that anything is navigible, then colorado wouldn't have the screwed up waterway laws it does, go read your COLREG's about inland nav laws.

And thanks for the name change too, ragdolly is kinda fitting after today...
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Old 03-28-2005   #19
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Englewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
Todd should get 'nuff respect for his work, as should the guys who sussed out the run. Keeping a lid on it till the run is completed is fine, and not unheard of - in climbing, people give the first ascensionist time to complete the project without poaching it. It's called respect - respect for their hard work. But hey - like Todd said - nobody stopping anyone from picking up a topo map and going for it. Not everybody likes the hard work part, I guess. Having said that, this is not at all like a "locals only" situation. I think the difference is quite obvious.

Kyle - you're right, you could be snowboarding, but then you'd break something in the park and miss half the boating season. Better type some more.
Join up, suckas.

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Old 03-28-2005   #20
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crested butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 698
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hey hey hey... easy boys and girls....first d's are first d's... something that many thrive on...it is adventure boating to the max...go get 'em....and secrets...well, if they have to keep it cool then keep it cool...i personally i like VICTORIA'S SECRETS the best... although this toddG and his croanies may have some better secrets....shit is starting to get really gay(topic)... and blindfolds are for magic tricks...and parkito does read topo's....and if you want to fuck with him you gotta fuck with me....we'll roll into your town and slash your skirts, steal your drain plugs and move your bulkheads!!!!got it punks...wow, that made me feel real tough and now i know i'm gonna score more p#ss!!! if you see us rolling into your town wearing helmets and nose plugs....well, step aside!!!!! now give PARKITO the help he's looking for.... or else!!!!

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