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Old 09-15-2010   #51
doesn't need a fake name
leif's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Oh, I wasn't reading closely enough. Damn, I was really hoping he had some pointers. That 250+ year was a really great year.

My shit is not weak! I had some sort of near-swims on the Slave this year. Not like the 2008 trip. I was pushing my river running envelope that year, and got a lot closer to swimming. This year I had different goals, but I still explored some new lines.

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Old 09-15-2010   #52
Mad Scientist/Creeker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 803
Dude, you've got a chalkboard with math problems on it... in your house! I've seen it.

Plus Spencer is definitely going to swim for his attack post on that Brandon fellow. I misrepresent things to my wife all the time, but that's not lying. Looks like he was merely guilty of leaving out the fact that he was no longer sure how solid he was but that he thought he was up to the challenge. And it was as you mentioned class IV- which by all means please paddle without a roll and swim it up! The buzz is a place for friendly call-outs. Too much venom and you're swimmin for sure.

I hope I don't swim for revealing Leif's chalkboard secret but one time he swam and I rescued his boat so he owes me anyway.

Lotsawater ran the shit one time like a hundred years ago and he swam on Lower Mishawaka, twice on the same run! Beep... beep... beep... Update! Update! Just skyped with lotsawater and he swam in the ocean with a seriously huge 3 foot swell, out of a "hard to roll" surf kayak too. So, I mean, I'd still take him on most any class V run, so I guess rolling it just kind of, you know, comes and it goes.

Evan Stafford
Cub boater: "What do the spiders mean?" Old fart boater: "Trust your intuition." CRCII
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Old 09-15-2010   #53
smauk2's Avatar
Near water (hopefully), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
Shit feelin bad about that post, sorry bout that Brandon, was havin an off day.
Let me rephrase it.

Your a ballsy paddler, not how I was taught, nothin wrong with that, work on your roll, oh ya and ferrying.

P.S you gotta drink a booty beer for that swim
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Old 09-15-2010   #54
Ft Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 160
I'd boat with Evan and Leif any day of the week (despite what the Forest Service guy said), and rescue lotsa's gear on the other days... no problem.

I'd also say that swimming is right when it's right, even though it's usually not... but can't really remember what it's like.
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Old 09-15-2010   #55
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by RiverWrangler View Post
And yes to everyone else, Sean Lee IS sicker than you.
That is some straight up BS! Unless you can call get working on "high" water S. Merced, losing your boat, hiking out, getting worked in the play park on Boulder Creek, and trying to play it off like you're the newly anointed leader of the Chunderposse bad ass. Sean should go back to the dojoe and work on his boof stroke (we know his roll works - most of the time - since he's upside down half the day). Maybe next time I can lend him some O's from my boooof stroke so that he doesn't have to plug double trouble and play it off like he's doing it on purpose, and blaming Forest for his bad form. That shit's so 90's.

Shit, now I'm gonna swim.
Chris Morrison
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Old 09-15-2010   #56
Mad Scientist/Creeker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 803
When I said sicker I meant it literally. Like beastiality and mature porn. Not sure if he participates but he's at least got that shit bookmarked. Not talking about some tame Wyoming sheep fuckin like Casper Mike either, I'm talking about orangoutangs and giraffes and 80's moms with mullets. Seriously sick like mentally unsafe to have around children.

Not sure what Oneriver was going for with this post (or seriously if anyone does) but I think we all owe him a small debt of gratitude for allowing us to make the buzz fun again, if not for just a brief moment in time.

Marty, I'd paddle with you any day of the week too buddy, even though I've got no idea if you can roll, as I can't remember ever seeing you upside down, seriously.

Spencer's right Brandon, you need to drink a booty beer but it's cool cause Spencer will be joining you soon.
Evan Stafford
Cub boater: "What do the spiders mean?" Old fart boater: "Trust your intuition." CRCII
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Old 09-16-2010   #57
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by CGM View Post
Shit, now I'm gonna swim.
Everyone posting in this thread is gonna swim soon. Great shit-talking leads to great beat-downs.
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Old 09-16-2010   #58
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Shit only problem Marty is when its time to show you will be boating something else.
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Old 09-16-2010   #59
Ft Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
Shit only problem Marty is when its time to show you will be boating something else.
anything to stay away from swimmers!

damn... now, I too, am about to swim
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Old 09-16-2010   #60
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
There are very few people who paddle class V with no roll. When you meet them the conversation usually starts with "I've paddled the Green". I've learned to go on red alert when I hear that phrase. (note: many legends cut their teeth on the green, but there are some not ready for prime time guys using the green as a resume...)

Outside of those rare circumstances, you rarely see people running class V swimming because of no roll. Most swims come from holes, pins, logs, mank piles etc. There may be some badasses that never swim... maybe they were raised by creekboating wolves from infancy, or maybe they have a magic mullet or some other secret trick. The rest of us swim every once in a while, and thats part of boating.

You can't get your black belt without getting a round house kick to the face now and again. You won't find many good climbers who haven't taken a few big leader falls. Motocross guys break bones and crash huge. Every action sport thats done at the expert level involves risk, some ass whippings, and consequences. The elation you feel after cleaning a huge drop is almost directly proportional to the ass whipping you would recieve if you screwed it up. Confronting risk is part of the reward of kayaking and its amplified in class V.

Instead of coming at class V with the idea of "you can't swim class V", I look at it differently. My take is that I won't run a rapid unless I am prepared for the consequences of swimming it if I screw it up. Most experienced boaters know the difference between and ass whipping swim and a serious life threatening swim when they are looking at a big drop. I'm prepared to take my ass whippings, but I almost always walk heavy drops with huge consequences. Of course accidents can happen anywhere so we all strive to never get complacent.

Even though swimming adds risk to boating, some of that risk can be mitigated. Safety gear, a strong crew, knowing were to scout and set safety, good on river communication are all things that can help manage the risk. All these things form a safety net that can mitigate the risks we take. There isn't much doubt in my mind that a kayaker with full safety gear and experience can survive swims that would likely be fatal to your average yahoo.

So yeah... I swim... I swim class V... I try and be prepared for it, learn from it, surround myself with trusted paddlers, but I'm comfortable with the risks that I am taking. If you aren't comfortable with the risk of swimming class V, maybe you shouldn't paddle it. If you are OK with the risks then go for it. Everyone needs to thoughtfully evaluate their own risk profile and make smart informed decisions.

I've logged a good number of swims over the seasons, but I rarely swim on big drops, and most of them are the holes, pins, and logs that come with the territory. I've swam out of tunnel at low water a few times, and its a swim into a pool that results in a self rescue. No big deal. I'd be horrified to swim gore rapid though. Not all swims carry the same risk and thats part of the equation we consider when deciding whether to run somethign or not.

Finally, Tom pulling quickly in first falls is smart. You aren't going to roll and dig yourself out of that spot. Get out while you have energy. If discretion is the better part of valor, than knowing when to pull is part of being a good boater.

I'd still like to see those swim videos though...

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