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Old 09-14-2010   #41
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by JimT View Post

I have the wet exit and swim down to a science and before going to a class IV or V I want to have a couple solid rolls and learn to brace better. Learning all that is not very fun but I want to be as prepared as possible for anything.

I respect you for respecting the power of the river and being smart. Good luck on your learning adventures. Don't give up!

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Old 09-14-2010   #42
Charleston, West Virginia
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 76
While I agree that one should have a roll before paddling class V, in my case, it made me a much better paddler to not have one. I realize it was pretty risky and not a good idea to paddle dangerous stuff like the Gauley and the Russel Fork without a roll, and would never advise it to anyone. However, because of the fact that I didn't have a roll, I NEVER made a mistake in that period of time when I was paddling hard stuff without a roll. Having the mindset that you have no second chance really forces you to concentrate fully and not mess up anything. So, in a way, if one can find a safe, difficult run (naming some WV runs because i'm more familiar with them, something like: the Cheat Canyon, Tygart Gorge, Cranberry, Middle Fork, Daugherty, Fikes, Etc.), one where there is a constant challenge, but if you fuck up and go in the water, you are in for the ride but it should be nothing life-threatening, then it can almost be beneficial to have a roll. No one wants to swim S-turn or Big Nasty, so they will be concentrating 100% on not messing up, but if they do mess up, they should be fine. Not really trying to argue that one shouldn't have a solid roll when on class V, just giving a different viewpoint

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Old 09-14-2010   #43
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Who came up with the retarded idea to hit BS under 100? Idiot
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Old 09-14-2010   #44
smauk2's Avatar
Near water (hopefully), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
I regularly practice swimming sieves and strainers so I know what to do when it happens in class V water. If the rapid isn't a class V, swimming isn't a big deal, it actually just helps me improve as a boater!

I've became really good at shoving my body through basket ball sized holes after getting sucked into underwater caves.

People tell me I should try and swim less but their just bitches cause their scared. Real paddlers swim cause we like running super brown big water mank gnar im hardcore as hell.
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Old 09-14-2010   #45
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Originally Posted by smauk2 View Post
I regularly practice swimming sieves and strainers so I know what to do when it happens in class V water. If the rapid isn't a class V, swimming isn't a big deal, it actually just helps me improve as a boater!

I've became really good at shoving my body through basket ball sized holes after getting sucked into underwater caves.

People tell me I should try and swim less but their just bitches cause their scared. Real paddlers swim cause we like running super brown big water mank gnar im hardcore as hell.
Don't think you have any room to be talking Spencer... you should just shut up now. This thread is lame. All you need quit being jelous your boyz be laying treats and you all been living vicariously. Now you to affraid to sack up so you have to post your I'm a gaping vagina speach thanks goodnight you lame retards
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Old 09-15-2010   #46
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 138
ok, ok, settle down everyone. kayaking is not sik enough to get all worked up about. It’s a “c-“ level sport at best. Swimming, on the other hand, is actually really cool. me and my boy justin jackson are swimming legends in delaware. in high school i was 2nd in the state for butterfly (legendary shirtless weenie bender photos to come) and slayed endless vag for my abilities to shred water so when you see someone not rolling in a vid its because they are showin off for the hotties, not because they can’t roll. what foo?

P.S. i'm pretty sure the people posting on this thread are all faggs, and you homo's are making honest attempts to get my 2 cents and benefit from my wisdom so here you go:

you guys are missing the whole point of this thread.... being me is fucking awesome!! i feel sorry for you lame asses that walk down the street and don’t get recognized…. and I’m not talking about a weak ass wanabee town like cb, vail, steamboat, or durango. SLC? are you serious? who in their right mind would move to a town where 95% of the population believes james smith is the savior? wtf? now i’m talking about real cities with real southern cali talent.

i don't think there are too many yahoo's out there that run the shit and can't roll. there are definitely video's out there where you see people running park and hucks that end in pools and they can't roll, but good for them. they are getting after it and the only consequences they have to worry about are breaking their back, nose, or dislocating a shoulder. no biggie....

i don't think too many people are getting in over their heads with running really hard runs or long rapid's with consequences without a roll. maybe a run like waterton because it is so sik and has had so much exposure but you won't find people going into the really sik runs like browns, bridges, or royal gorge who cant roll….. especially at high water. what? dave frank and i did go through a period a couple of years ago with really poor roll technique and still ran the shit. We were running elephant buttress when it was raging at like 550 bitches! i just didn't ever flip because i'm that good. i must say it is all mental. old men like gary e still can't roll and runs the shit. he would be fine if he were not worried about if he left his spandex back in boulder and where he is going to get his next pedicure. keck needs to come to terms with the fact that not only is he a self promoting flake, and the bottom line is he actually really sucks at kayaking. tom and alex are going through the mental thing now too.... tom can’t get over the fact that he hasn’t been laid…. well…. ever, and alex is too concerned trying to bash out the only female kayaker in the state. so these guys are swimming all the time! not a big deal! that's why you roll with a heady bra crew, not a bunch of whistle blowers that pull out scuba gear when a bra gets hung up on a rock. (Tyson is too cool to make fun of)

on a serious note: since then, i have had 2 swims in the past 3 years. and both were this summer. i'll tell you about them to shed some light on the subject: my first kayaking trip of the year was to the south merced and i hadn't exercised in months or trained at all (ran harmon 2x… super nar). it was the highest water level ever attempted on south merced and our group was portaging quite a bit. i was totally spent after the first couple portages and major rapids. i flipped in a class IV hole backed by a rock. tried several roll attempts and kept missing. i'm not sure where i was when i actually pulled the cord but was totally exhausted and needed air. my guess is that the swim looked really lame although i know i spent some deep down time when i came out. i bet this is the type of swim you are seeing on videos. it wasn't that i can't roll and shouldn't be running the shit. it was that i couldn't roll in those circumstances and was not mentally or physically prepared for the run or that particular drop. that is what separates me from a guy like steve fisher (that and he has an abnormally tiny cock in contrast with his oddly large testicles.... and the thing about my cock is that it's short but.... its really really thin too). he may flip, but is always prepared and is always in shape. its hard to maintain that level of mental and physical fitness living in co. no excuses though....

second swim was out of widow maker at 500ish. forrest and i were going in just to see who would get totally trashed first. i won. easily in there for a minute with about 15 rolls / roll attempts before pulling. i was so worked after that if i got stuck in another hole in the park downstream, i probably would have swam without a roll attempt. i didn't because i'm so sik in the park.

tom's swim on bailey was as gay as the day is long. the only time i pull out that fast is when me and the front range siko crew are raw dogging mountain wool. don't see a need to spread the seed.

swimming is part of the game and if you think someone swimming is putting you in danger and that worries you, then you should not be out there. the best of the best swim from time to time and its perfectly ok.

i learned to boof from forrest and he sucks so i apologize to you new school spikey hairs for pimping out a meltdown every once in a while. its actually a great move commonly practiced at tunnel by the late and great chunderboy. chunderposse bitches!! put that in your extreme videos ross. kids these days just don't have the balls to try it.

so over the weekend i finally met milo.... what a chump! i mean this fucking guy. i've never met a guy that kissed my ass so hard in my life. "we should go do this.... we could do that.... i want to come hang out in boulder... you can come have a sleep over at my house anytime you want.... i'll cook dinner.... we can go camping together.... even though i'm not running anything i'll clean it so you guys can run.... do you need shuttle...." i'm like, "slow down dude" he is like, "you don't even need to pack a heavy boat.... i'll carry your food... i'll keep you warm at night... i just want to hang out..."

then we are walking down the street in the bustling metropolis of crested butte (milo carrying his shake weight) and the guy thinks he is the man because he knows everyone and everyone knows him. i mean this guy can't take a piss without some dude checking out his pecker (which hasn't been used since about the last time tom used his which is years ago). the weird thing is.... he only knows dudes, not one chick! classic mountain town tool time with milo. what a geek!

and whoever that guy is who asked earlier in the post if you are as bad ass as me.... you not. don't waste your time typing stupid questions.
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Old 09-15-2010   #47
jonny water's Avatar
Geologist, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 583
I don't have any tolerance for the people that knowingly can't roll and swim class V. I will tell them this and simply tell them to hike out.

Nonetheless, people should know WHEN to swim. Sometimes, it IS better to swim for it because you are likely to never get out of the hole. Like 1st falls (I don't run this kind of non-quality, high consequence whitewater. I don't care if people think i'm a pussy, i've been paddling for a long time, and will continue to walk the crap, run the quality goods). But it may be in your best interest to swim while you still have the energy. If you wait untill you are exhausted, things may go real bad.

Being in good shape will increase chances of staying in the boat longer. If you had scouted the hole, you should know where the best exit is located, and you will have more energy to make it there because you just had a big rest while scouting. I got sucked back in to the Osterizer, but knew that i could surf across the face of the hole and melt thru the center because i had scouted. If i swam in there, it would have been real bad and could end your kayaking career.

However, you should make every attempt to get out! Playboating a hole is a good way out...probably tryo ender out.

Once out of your boat and in a sticky ledge-type hole that is nearly inescapable, remember....GO DEEP! To do this you need to have energy and the ability to hold your breath. If you find yourself slammed down on the bottom of the river, try to get your feet underneath you and
kick off the bottom angled downstream. This may be your best and maybe only option of escape. Once you have done this, swim like hell to escape the boil and hope your buddy is going to hit you with that rope when you surface.

The last time I swam was in Woodall Shoals on the Chattooga. This is the real deal hole to get out of. I tried surfing out several times and kept getting sterned up and flipped back in. By the time I decided that I couldn't escape, i swan and was out of energy. At that point I was really screwed. I 'bout lost my life and quit boating for nearly a year.

I would never remove my life-jacket b/c if you black out, you may never surface in time for a rescue. Some could argue that in some situations, the floatation it the main reason for getting recirced.
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Old 09-15-2010   #48
West slope, Colorado
Paddling Since: day1
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 16
i went kayaking once it was awsome. then i met some people from the front range. it wasnt awsome because they couldnt roll. by the way 303 escalante is bumping right now!!! quick take off work kiss your ugly girl friends or boy friend good buy and get in the car for the 6 hour drive or your going to miss it.
make sure you can roll.
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Old 09-15-2010   #49
doesn't need a fake name
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Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by JCKeck1 View Post
... Leif is playboating, running his backyard run for the 1,000 time and falling off Escalante falls at 8cfs. His shit is weak. ...
What the hell? Who is this Jckeck guy? I can't take that one sitting down!

First of all, do you really get 300+ days on the water? That's commendable. I had one year where I didn't work or anything, I just lived in the northwest and paddled what seemed like every day. After a couple months of that, I got really tired and started taking 1 day per week off. Then it started getting harder and harder to find people to paddle with, and I took 2 days a week off, but that was about as far as it went. I paddled more than I ever had in my life, but still only hit about 250 days. Then I ran out of money and had to go back to school. If you're getting 300+, I am impressed. If you don't mind me asking, how do you afford to do nothing but paddle, every single day, on a long term basis? Do your sponsors cover it?

Anyway, I don't have any trash talking to do, since I don't actually know anything about your paddling. My shit is not weak. We did make a low water Escalante run this year, but that was because by the time escalante actually had water, we had moved on to bigger and better things.

((ALSO: West Slope or Die, sounds like we have similar interests. We should paddle some time.))
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Old 09-15-2010   #50
Mad Scientist/Creeker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 803
Leif- were talking about Joe "the focker" Keck. He's a male nurse who lives in Texas... uh, nuff said. Anyway, I think he was saying 300 days over three years. Still pretty solid but attainable for the average, uh Joe. Also he was right about everything but the backyard run, unless you call the Slave your backyard run.

Johnny Water, gotta disagree on the quality of 1st Falls. It's a great move when you execute it correctly but the wall is ugly and does have fangs.

And yes to everyone else, Sean Lee IS sicker than you.

Evan Stafford
Cub boater: "What do the spiders mean?" Old fart boater: "Trust your intuition." CRCII
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