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Old 10-10-2012   #61
Laramie, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 171
I hope anyone who was actually stupid enough to buy one of those T-Shirts for $120 at least now will be too embarrassed to ever wear it in public, or at least around anyone who kayaks.

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Old 10-10-2012   #62
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Put people in front of camera going big what going big, big fucking deal that's not kayaking that not my sport. Glad I went to the rio today, I did put on a a kayaking event and came out 300 and twelve pack in the hole, big deal! you cant put a price on community! It's about community and you wouldn't understand that and yes the reason it was at quake lake is because its the only road side run still running this time a year at a worthy flow.. Also it was the only kayaking event around these parts this year.. Wooooo, I've been to kayak events for over 10 years now, won plenty lost plenty, Been announcer at plenty. I know the old guys I know the new guys

Big timber is on par with any other difficult run. 2 miles of a hike into creek. I know plenty of people that don't know kayaking that see big t footy and are blown away. It doesn't get as many people interested as a local plunge hole. Because its harder to get into and around its a 750' mile run. It's one of the classics and I'm stoked to have it as one of my local runs and my creeking staple. I was planning on having a race up their and heard the owners were going to be selling the property so I don't bother. To bring it up is irrelevant because the reason behind those vids is FUN read and weap!

I organized a boxelder race that fell thru because of lack of water. So sorry

I put a vid out that represents East Rosebud Creek and a spectacular reason why we need to save it I give links to the site to help! I don't see any help I can post all day you all can't even sign a petition! Yeah this one! You are aware of this unrealistic aspect of the sport but don't preach conservation. If that's the side of the sport that's progressing to Im out!

East Rosebud Creek Hydro Project - Home

What gives you right to question me and what I'm doing. You are saying its alright for the people running to make money off the event! That's bs.

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Old 10-10-2012   #63
Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Mike, I'm sorry you feel as if though I'm calling you out. That is not the case. I am all for building the kayak community. Donating to AW and CW I think these are all good organizations and need support. Like I said earlier, obviously this topic it to complex for you to understand. This comment " caspermike-What gives you right to question me and what I'm doing. You are saying its alright for the people running to make money off the event! That's bs." shows that you are not reading what I wrote. I wrote that event organizers often don't make any money for their event and they are lucky to have any left over for their efforts. So let me ask you this Caspermike....since you had a successful event and made some profits. Did you donate your $300 profit to AW??

Edit: Also to be fair "what gives you the right to question me and what I'm doing" exactly why I was questioning your concern for bringing up that I have only kayaked since 2010. Does this make you feel better about yourself? Want a cookie??
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Old 10-10-2012   #64
Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Mike, re read your post and it appears to me now that you were down $300. Sorry for the misread.

I will read more on your east rosebud creek project. I also feel that those type of efforts are also very important and well worth the time spent.
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Old 10-10-2012   #65
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
deepsouthpaddler gets the award for the most rational, well thought out, and well articulated comment of this thread! And your idea for them to raise money is a great idea. Thanks, Ian. I tried to start expressing something similar last night, but gave up and could only come up with a "good luck" and I hope you make your big picture dreams a reality.

I've already had this type of discussion right here on mountainbuzz many years ago when I was trying to help the growth of kayaking by, ironically, trying to push my own agenda to make money off of kayaking so I could continue living the dream. So, I understand WWGP's position and desire to go big and push the sport in the direction they are passionate about. But I also understand some of the other comments here who are against the way they are going about this.

WWGP should definitely continue trying to put on incredible events like the one they had, but should recognize that the growth of kayaking isn't just about being rad, going big and getting $100,000 camera footage. Sure, it's one element that is attached to the image of kayaking, but there are many other factors to growing the sport - some of which deepsouthpaddler mentioned.

That's my 2 cents...
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Old 10-10-2012   #66
BryanS.'s Avatar
Prineville, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
@Mike: i signed the petition. I hope it helps.
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Old 10-11-2012   #67
doesn't need a fake name
leif's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
I like how people are suggesting selling the video, and everyone is patting everyone on the back and using that as a dig against the wwgp, but buying "premium access" to the online video of the event is the first and cheapest item on the list on their website.

It's still listed at a donation sort of price, where you're not buying it just because you want the video, you're buying it to help them out, but the point us that they thought of it, and it's affordable.
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Old 10-11-2012   #68
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Hey Leif, what I suggested is different. I proposed that WWGP fund the event themselves, and then sell it afterwards, thereby forcing them to take ownership and risk for an expensive project. What you referenced is a $10 donation up front that gives you some vague future access, which is different.

The big difference: who takes the risk? If I donate money now (which I won't), and the grand prix doesn't go off due to insufficient funds, what happens to my cash? Did I just give some guy a great brand new camera?

My point was that I wouldn't be opposed to paying a small amount after the event to see the video, but I don't want to pay a larger amount up front. Just my own personal take... slam away if you want.

It doesn't change the fact that the WWGP has a business model that sponsors don't support, and that the vast majority of paddlers don't support. I'm not hearing a lot of slamming of the WWGP as a concept... most people seem to appluad the idea of the most intense competition the sport has seen. They just don't want to write a handful of guys a very large blank check to have awesome media while high fiving themselves for being badasses.
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Old 10-11-2012   #69
doesn't need a fake name
leif's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Ok, well put. I can respect that.

I'm not convinced to change my own position, but I do have a better understanding of yours.

The reason that I feel the wwgp should be supported is not because of the competition aspect of the event, but because of the potential publicity it could bring the whole sport. I still see a donation to the wwgp as a generalized donation to the sport, and I have some trust that I'm not just paying for pat's newest camera or funding the adventures of a small group of paddlers. I believe that the money will be used in a reasonable and responsible way, and I don't see it as crazy that they are asking the community for support.
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Old 10-11-2012   #70
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
This whole discussion is fascinating and thought provoking to me as ultimately it's a discussion of what people value in the kayaking community and what people think is best for the sport. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and ultimately everyone is voting with their own cash.

I'm not convinced that more exposure is necessarily good for the sport and I don't see how more exposure is going to improve my kayaking experience. If I made a living as a kayaker I could see the economic value of more exposure. Especially if that exposure were paid for by employed Buzzards. But since I'm a working stiff who just wants to talk trash on the Buzz and kayak with every spare minute, I don't care about exposure.

In terms of "progressing the sport" everyone also has a different idea of what they value. The kind of progression I'm inspired by is ambitious expeditions on multi-day rivers in remote places. Personally, another video clip of hand gestures off Middle Palguin isn't what inspires me and I'm not going to donate money for it. If the Durango posse, who quietly managed to descend about every major river in Peru in great style, decided to put together some media around their trip I would pay for it--because I am personally inspired by that type of thing.

In short, donate to WWGP if you think what they offer improves your kayaking experience. If you'd rather spend your cash elsewhere then do that. WWGP will find out pretty quickly how much the community values what they bring to the table.

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