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Old 10-09-2012   #31
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Good luck triberiders and WWGP. I love your videos and think your competitions are incredible! I understand your frustration with a cash poor industry that can't support your cause. I hope you can find a way to turn your big picture dreams and intentions for the sport into a reality.

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Old 10-10-2012   #32
tj@cu's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 983
Originally Posted by dustyrivers View Post
I have to say, its almost heartbreaking to hear so many of you hate on this cause. Now, I can't speak on behalf of Tribe or their marketing agenda. But I was one of the videographers during the last event, and I edited a lot of the official video content so many of you rallied behind last year.
I'm not hear to argue, but I'd love to take the opportunity to explain why $100,000 is a very small price tag. Now, I'll first say that I forgive you all for not understanding money... it's not your fault, you're all scumbag boaters and have probably never held more than a few bucks in your wallet
I want to follow that up with "You are not paying boaters to live the rockstar lifestyle". I'm sorry if some of the videos last year made some of you believe this. There was partying, but that was not funded by the WWGP. That came out of each paddler's desire to enjoy their time with good friends.
I'm not sure how familiar any of you are with video needs... but video is expensive. The WWGP had a very small media team. I think it was something like 6 Videographers. Yep, 6 Videographers worked 15+ hour days (Some of us worked more like 19+ hour days if we were editing the pieces) for two weeks without pay. It was extremely grass roots. I for one took, and will have to take 3 weeks off of work to help bring this content to you. It would be great if the media team could make a little money for such hard work.
Sure, we'll be in Chile. And most of us would love for the opportunity. But please don't insult us by saying that we are not slaving our asses off to bring you this content.
Anyway... "paying the media team" aside....
"Is that a 7D?" So many boaters own DSLRs. So you should know what it costs to equip 5 videographers with a camera, enough CF Cards to last the day, batteries to do the same, and enough variation in lenses to keep it interesting.
It's something like 26K.
And we'd like to bring some new technologies to the table. I for one, am gonna flip a shit if I see any more crappy twixtor files in a kayak video. We'd love to see some Sony FS700 footage in the next event's coverage.
The FS700 is the cheapest camera out there capable of shooting great quality, 1080 footage at 240fps. If you haven't seen footage, go check it out.
Anyway, two of these cameras would be nice. It's not over the top.. I promise. But with a price tag of nearly $8k not even including the accessories to keep the camera running... well... we're getting up there...

obviously, this kind of coverage can't be put together when the media team is sleeping in tents. It is important to manage all of this media, and keep things dry and charged. So accommodations are necessary. Typically, its not much, we sleep on the floors when there is time to sleep, but there needs to be a base camp where we can manage the media.

Anyway, with just the equipment, (not including any pay to the media team, or even being able to pay for their plane tickets down there) we are talking around $50K.

And this pricetag only included one lens per camera, no gopros, and no audio equipment or computer to edit any of this on.

I'm sure you will be able to punch holes in this pricetag, but it was only generated to give you all an idea of where some of the money needs come from.
You totally need brand new gear that is essential, who cares if you get a 8k camera out of it?

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Old 10-10-2012   #33
Hood River, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2163
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 295
I actually think it is a pretty cool event. People who suck at surfing love watching gnarly big waves to get them excited about starting out and I think that this media actually does go a long way towards building our sport. Then again, I doubt most people are as averse to twixtor as you are. Considering the cost of the 240fps camera it seems like the software gives you more bang for your (our) buck.

Even if they financed it themselves, I wish bombtribeflowballsdeepriders would tone down the partying image in their videos. It really doesn't appeal to a lot of us out there. Sure, it's fun to throw down with your buddies but that's better lived in the moment than on camera (and on the internet). Some of the shit in the recent "balls deep" movie actually looked like sexual harassment. Does not encourage me to support any of these folks. Once again, I don't care if they paid for it themselves, broadcasting it on the internet degrades their image (as demonstrated here).

Finally, I wish those paddlers would get a bit less exclusive and do more to engage with the general community. Tough to want to buy/wear the t-shirt of a super duper exclusive club that you aren't actually a part of.
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Old 10-10-2012   #34
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by dustyrivers View Post
I'm not sure how familiar any of you are with video needs... but video is expensive.
It's embarrassing that you claim to know about video budgeting and build half the budget around BUYING gear you could easily rent for 1/10th of the cost. Oh, so we're buying you guys cameras? I guess we're not funding WWGP after all, we're funding your gear. Try again.
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Old 10-10-2012   #35
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Exactly that why I didn't respond to his half thought out response.

So half the event is to make a company to document the event. None of you actually own the cameras you just want us to buy for you.

Yeah WWGP is def something we can't do without ha! Anybody can see why they are hurting for money. The kayak industry has nothing to do with buying cameras and paying for media. Charge money for the movie after its made...

WWGP is a scam and disappointing to say but a "tick on the nut sack of kayak culture"
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Old 10-10-2012   #36
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 807
The WWGP in Canada was defienitely the most impressive whitewater competition ever. The videos were awazing and I will watch them again. That being said, doing something cool does not equal a good business model. You cannot eschew commercialism and put on an event that costs $100,000. It just does not work. To put on this event, they need to sell it to sponsors. No sponsors = no $100,000 event. There is simply no way thery are going to raise $100k from a group of people who will not pay full price for their gear. I hope they figure something out, but they need a better plan than begging for donations.
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Old 10-10-2012   #37
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Near water (hopefully), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770

This is a weird thread. Why can't we use all the go-pros all the athletes who will be competing likely have. What about the cameras that were used to film the Little White Race or The North Fork Championships? Why are new computers needed? Has anyone asked people to lend camera gear? I know I'd be happy with footage compiled from SLRs that aren't 4 grand a pop. Better to have the event and document it with what's available than to not have the event at all.

I haven't seen anyone encouraging the donations who isn't somehow invested in the race. Leif you make good points, but maybe you are partially biased because you frequently compete and Natalie submitted an entry video? As a side note she deserves that spot. I hope you hear back from them soon.

Dusty I hope you end up in Chile filming the event. Whether you end up with a super sweet new camera or not doesn't really matter to me. If you have a body with a decent lens most of the kayak community will enjoy your work.
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Old 10-10-2012   #38
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 966
Interesting argument. I re-watched the video that highlighted the comps last year and it was certainly impressive. When is the comp supposed to happen? This seems like an urgent call for financial backing, perhaps at the mast minute....and I curious about what efforts have been made to financially support the event since last year. Have any fundraisers been held to help gain support? I'm not condemning those that are asking for funding, I'm just curious.

Are all of the sponsors from last year still on board?

Have any new sponsors been gained?

Who are the sponsors?

One more question....Where is the equipment/videographers that took footage from last year? The 50 (ish) minute that summizes last years events seem to do a great job of capturing all of the competitions. Is the call for money to buy new equipment because those same people aren't going to be a part of the event? Just curious, I'm not hatin on the WWGP. Personally, I thought it looked pretty incredible. Maybe it could gain more support if it got behind more conservation efforts or donated a percent potential proceeds to AW...
"You know that old trees just grow stronger and old rivers grow wilder, everyday..."
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Old 10-10-2012   #39
Hood River, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2163
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 295
Twixtor looks fine to most of us. Just use the 7d's that everyone already has. If the moire on the sensor annoys you then spring for one or two MKIII's and call it a day. You can get perfectly fine sliders for pretty cheap. Beyond that, you probably only need a few focus pullers and one small/cheapo crane. I think you are being way to ambitious with your estimate. On top of that, I'm sure you guys already have cpus and editing software. Hardrive space is cheap ($100/tbyte) and you probably don't need more than a thousand bucks or so worth. CF cards... yeah I guess but if you shoot all the time why don't you have them already?

Finally, it seems like all the guys are stoked to go out with a cineflex mounted on a heli these days but I honestly don't see that the quality increase for paddling is proportional to the price increase. They look sick in ski movies but the heli view for most boating shots just isn't that awesome considering how much you pay for heli time.
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Old 10-10-2012   #40
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
I stayed up past my bedtime last night and watched a bunch of the WWGP footage from last year. It is very well done. Somehow I had it in my head that the event was in the same vein as that Balls Deep garbage. Perhaps I have that association because sometimes kayaking media starts to feel like one big bro-brah circle jerk that happens to be caught on helmet-cam. But the WWGP footage is a giant notch above that.

I have to give the WWGP guys props for trying to do something innovative and taking a risk on this media project and trying to step up the state of kayak media. I'm still not going to chip in my gas money to fund their broken business model but this isn't the same as a bunch of derelicts asking for booze money.

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