Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2010   #31
Cisco, Utah
Paddling Since: Dawn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
Support your local Tamarisk Beetle!!

I dont know what the current status of the various beetle projects are... but here is an insane fact about the invasive tamarisk inundating the southwest, and the Colorado River Corridor in particularly.... (and expected to migrate into more northern states as global warming increases)

"Studies have shown that a mature tamarisk can uptake nearly 200 gallons of water a day. Although native trees in wet riparian areas can use more or less the same amount of water, they do not grow in as densely as the tamarisk. Due to this, the West is probably losing from 2- 4.5 million acre-feet of water per year because of tamarisk. This is enough water to supply more than 20 million people with water for one year or to irrigate over 1,000,000 acres of land."

- Tamarisk Frequently Asked Questions - Questions about the Tamarisk plants near Moab, Utah.

This is not to comment on any of the other bitches and gripes articulated above... I have several opinions there as well.... but though this isn't a solution to cultural or societal issues that are out of control, it seems to me that these beetle programs are an attempt at mitigating the tamarisk issue, which is out of control.

Oh.. and a tarp over lake mead and lake powell might help minimize water lost to evaporation... in the middle of a desert...

UserName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #32
hojo's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,234
Obviously I'm not for removing Vegas, and the lawns and pools comment is relevant and a real solution. The color doesn't lie. They may be next to the river valley, but there is very little food grown in that green.

4.4 inches annual rainfall: Google Maps

Zoom in on any given spot here and count the pools.
8 inches annual rainfall: Google Maps

Just as bad but with less pools:
15 inches annual precip: Google Maps

Do the visual math and see that the food production capabilities could be several times larger if the lawns were made of edibles and/or water usage would be that much less. If the rain won't support it then don't grow it with irrigation water.

You can dodge the issue all you want but lawns in deserts are wasteful. You want grass, go to a park and share. You want to swim, go to a community pool. Cleaning up the food industry would help some though if you want to conserve water, conserve water by not wasting it on lawns and backyard pools... "Oh" I hear you cry, "you are sullying our way of life and being oppressive you nasty liberal." Well, yeah.. get the fuck over it and stop wasting our water. Just because they flooded a canyon to reserve water doesn't mean they did it so you could waste it nor does that water count as regular supply... it's called reserve, not "this is our capacity, keep developing until we exhaust it."

On the river, I can abandon who I am and what I've done. However brief it lasts, while on the river I am nothing important and everything insignificant. I am flotsam, and happy to be so.
hojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #33
Cisco, Utah
Paddling Since: Dawn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
links to USGS studies on evaporation at Lake Mead... (over a million acre feet / year)

Curious how the offset is between evaporation here and annual native rainfall...

Evaporation from Lake Mead, Arizona and Nevada, 1997-99
UserName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #34
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
This is pretty interesting stuff. I talked to the Denver Water guys about this. The colorado river compact was formed in 1922 from what I recall and Cali has never had to put a call on the river... they always got their share. If mead gets too low and there isn't enough water to go around, Cali could put a call on the river that could force changes in the way colorado stores and releases water. Apparently some colorado folks are buying up senior water rights to make a water bank so that if cali comes calling colorado will have enough water to send downstream and not be left high and dry.

My two cents is that cali needs desalination powered by renewable energy sources. Its expensive, but its sustainable for perpetuity. We've got a lot of eggs in the single basket of the colorado river and the consequences of a major supply shortage are huge. Time to diversity supply.

I do think that there is a reasonble long term solution to water shortages and that people can still live in the west. Its simply going to take conservation, reuse, some smart ideas, renewable energy, some quality engineering, and lots of cooperation.

I don't buy the doom and gloom that we are doomed and its impossible to live in the west due to water shortages. We transport electricity, gas, oil, natural gas, food, building products, cars and everything else on the planet to where they need to be, why not water? I pay several hundred dollars a month for power and more for food but pay a miniscule amount for water. The reality is that our economy could handle the true cost of water in the long run.

Also, the idea that water belongs to one basin and that its stealing if it gets used elsewhere is rediculous. I know there is a lot of fighting over this, but its goofy. I get apples from cali, citrus from florida, wheat from the plains and beef from texas but if I get water from the other side of a mountain its a problem. Give me a break. Yes there is a lot of water law involved but water is a commodity and can be traded, transported, etc. If it gets used somewhere other than where the snow first fell its OK.
deepsouthpaddler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #35
Cisco, Utah
Paddling Since: Dawn
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 351
I believe that california is the only state in the colorado basin that actually uses or exceeds its full 'allocation' per revised river compact of 1979... may be wrong there though...
UserName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #36
feats of strength's Avatar
Detroit, Michigan
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 78
Innovative Germans doing something about our "water problems".

Ford S-MAX -Kayaking on Sand | Motorsports Video |
"With a wonder and a wild desire..." -Flogging Molly
feats of strength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #37
pocatello, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 471
I'll admit it- I have a lawn, a decent one, about 8000 Sq ft. My lot is 20000+ sq ft and had 15,000 ft of grass when I bought it. Now it has a lot of nice looking rocks and some raised gardens (vegtable, not flower). I left some kentucky blue because I like to play on my lawn with my daughter. If we have no lawn how is she supposed to get mad soccer skills. She also likes to be towed around in my playboat (the purple dolphin she calls it). Why do I not feel guilty? I live in Idaho 90% of water consumption is agricultural. Something like the other 7% is industrial. only about 3% is municipal. While I'm not in favor of waste it seems like conservation efforts would be best spent in the ag sector.

That being said my town meters. A neighboring town of similar climate and socio status does not meter. Their usage is about double per capita. Interesting data.

It is my understanding that the water in the colorado and associated basins is promised at over 100% of actual flows, but not every holder of water rights is currently using all of their rights.

Kind of scary.
fiya79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #38
feats of strength's Avatar
Detroit, Michigan
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 78
Study: Future droughts will be shockers - U.S. news - Environment - Climate Change -

I just saw this story and thought of y'all.

I would like to continue paddlin' into my 60's

Anyone ever see the movie about the future where everyone is convinced that gatorade (or something similar) is better than water? They could not understand why the crops weren't growing...etc.

Note: this movie was not waste your time!
"With a wonder and a wild desire..." -Flogging Molly
feats of strength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #39
Horserump, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1975
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 458
Keep it going folks. There are a lot of great questions being raised. The trick is coming up with good answers. How about this: Find some way to remove all the salt from salt water with low energy consuption.
We have enough smart people on this forum and this planet that need to start thinking in some other tangents.
yak1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2010   #40
mr. compassionate's Avatar
conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by CGM View Post
I say mind your own business, and stop telling me how to manage my property. I think that I am the best judge of that.

Since when did front range water become "your property"? I say screw highlands ranch and all the pretty Kentucky Bluegrass there..what a waste of water.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchhill
mr. compassionate is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any water in CB ~6/17? markd Whitewater Kayaking 4 06-16-2009 08:32 PM
...water.... milo Whitewater Kayaking 5 04-21-2009 08:42 PM
Water flows. water talk, eddyflower etc.. bshack93 Whitewater Kayaking 16 05-09-2007 09:00 PM
The water is on! bkp Whitewater Kayaking 0 03-15-2007 11:14 AM
How soon can I be on the water? frontranger Whitewater Kayaking 4 03-10-2004 07:54 PM

» Classified Ads
AT Geronimo Glass Paddle...

posted by MaxInTexas

AT Geronimo straight shaft paddle with 30 degree offset. ...

Jackson Superstar

posted by Gary Rempe

Beautiful boat with awesome performance. Very lightly used...

Demo 2016 Pyranha 9R

posted by 4CRS

Used 2016 Pyranha 9R whitewater race kayak - lightly used...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.