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Old 07-01-2006   #31
yourrealdad's Avatar
185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
First you should worry about how well written your waiver is. Due not mention that your gear will cause the kayaker or whoever to be safe. When the waiver should also have broken down paragraphs that the person must initial this shows the court that they "read" every little part and didn't miss any part such as you are not liable if they DIE. Then don't tell them anything but how to get to the river. Don't say "oh class II is easy you'll will be alright" then your heading towards gross negligence which is where waivers start to fail. Regulation an buracracies suck If you are so concerned set up a store that rents out pfds and helmets for all the tubers.

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Old 07-01-2006   #32
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11
A friend I mtn bike with has a saying spawned from countless encounters with yocals riding, no helmet, huffy bikes in gnarls terrain, etc.

'I dont care what you do, but I aint stopping to help.'

It has proven to be very handy. Nothing worse than someone ruining our day by drowning or cracking their head open.

'hope everyone know cpr...' Not me, I know it, but I aont using it on your ass. If you drown, too bad for you. If I drown, too bad for me.

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Old 07-01-2006   #33
Gary E's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 739
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To administer cards and "regulate" costs money, or are you gonna do it on the side for everyone? Think that's where clay was going with his post and he is right.

What is an advanced boater and who judges that ras?

The great thing about kayaking is YOU make your decisions on the water and YOU live and die by them. You're not talking about 10 year old kids here you're talking about people that have some idea of being smart. Again relavent to the person but not your business.

"who cares if they can wet exit??" well if a person CAN"T roll and CAN"T wet exit I hope EVERYONE knows HOW togive CPR" How many people have you pulled their skirt off for them ras? Get off your all knowing and rightous attitude and help when you can and paddle as safe as you can.
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Old 07-01-2006   #34
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 48
I think that you should let them live and learn and when they come back to the shop without a boat and paddle (like some guy did on the San Miguel) more beer for the and reward for the rescue/recovery folks like me.
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Old 07-01-2006   #35
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
I rented kayaks for 6 years, and not once did I feel the need for some bullcrap certificate card.

It was really easy to figure out if they had or had not kayaked before. With a few simple screening questions a person will give you an enormous amount of information. For example: Where are you from? Oh really, what rivers do you paddle over there? What kind of boat do you use back home?

If I felt the person had never kayaked before I would simply say, "I would prefer that I didn't rent you this gear because I feel I am going to either save your life or save you from having to buy all of this expensive gear after you lose most of it." This statement got most people's attention. I had a few leave pissed off, but the rest were educated on why a lesson or duckie is a better option.

Mark Olson
"A retired kayak salesman."
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Old 07-01-2006   #36
Caspian's Avatar
Englewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
A current example of what happens when you regulate things:
Join up, suckas.

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Kierkegaard
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Old 07-02-2006   #37
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
Firstly I would like to thank all the people that responded to my ? in a reasonable manner as to why they think it is not a good idea.
I have had several students ask about a cert card for the kayak lessons they took, most of them are also SCUBA certified.

Remember all I did was ask a ? I never said I was going to the ACA and demand that this be done.

Next I would like to tell all the people that turned this in to a chance to PERSONALY attack me I hope you have a nice day and paddle safe and may anytime you need help hopefully there will be someone there to lend a hand that knows what to do.

I have never had to pull a skirt off a person and hope I never have to.
I have had to give CPR to 5 (yes that is FIVE) Near Drowning Vic's.
1 in water heart attack
3 water asperations
1 not sure why
How many have YOU done GARY E???
Don't do anything, just stand there.
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Old 07-03-2006   #38
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Hooray for Rasdoggy!!!!! He has successfully pissed further than GaryE in the "How many people have YOU given CPR to contest." Give this guy a trophy or something.
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Old 07-03-2006   #39
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11
I think if he gets five more, he gets a free pass into heaven. 5 more after that, and he will be GOD HIMSELF!!

Im not a 'good' person like ras, Id breakout my sandwhich and watch you drown. Id expect everyone else to do the same for me.

Ive been around various sporst for a long time. These kayakers that are all holier-than-thou with safety and process are funny. You have them in every sport. They will argue how smart they are, how they work in 'the industry' and have 'done it five times' blah blah blah...

Its how they have fun, get off on that part of the sport.

I say get a job as a paramedic, then you can do FIVE A DAY!!
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Old 07-03-2006   #40
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Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
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Posts: 739
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Hey Ras,

You don't want to have a credential contest with me jackass. I'm not proud of what I've seen or have had to do on the river with my own friends or other people's brothers, sisters, friends, children. It takes a lot more than cpr to make me want to paddle with someone on harder runs.

You spout all the time about cpr, cretifacations ect. You bring up scuba and it sounds like you know your shit when it comes to that, as it's always your reference and gives you some clue when you're backing up some dumb ass question or point of view. Your problem is you think you're the only person that's had to be the person others rely on.

You're a misguided, righteous, jackass that has no clue about what really happens. What are you, a 3 year paddler? Bet your saftey is incredible, so much better than mine or anyone elses on this board. Glad you joined a team at a kayak shop so we can all learn and pick the master's brain.

Well then master... do you know how many people that have drowned get revived with cpr or what percentage will make it? Just curious. Glad we could get you back to cpr.

Ras, I'm sure you mean well, but getting on here to sound smart and righteous isn't exactly working for you. Maybe you should just go paddle and tell us about all the carnage you took care of today.


How'd we get from pulling skirts to CPR... didn't think I asked, but again, thanks for making my point on your ever righteous attitude jerky.

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