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Old 06-30-2006   #21
no tengo
mania's Avatar
Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,768
our insurance co tells us not to evaluate/screen for rentals - cause what if you evaluate wrong? if its duckies for example you can say dont go anywhere over class II and then if they do they went against your policy.

for hard shells we call them demos and wont rent you one unless you have your own PFD, skirt, paddle, helmet. FWIW.

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Old 06-30-2006   #22
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
Stupid people will find a way to do themselves in one way or the other, as long as you got a deposit, you're set.

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Old 06-30-2006   #23
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11
Im a new kayaker, but here is a snowboarding related story from back in the day. In the early 80's, when I started snowboarding on the east coast, many resorts required you to take a 'certification' run with 'the' snowboard guy, and then get a laminated card to prove you could ride 'in control' with the other skiers.

Man-o-man, if you got done with this and on the mountain by lunch, you were lucky.

Basically, my father taught me not to be an idiot. He taught me that the roads are slippery when wet, and if you fall into a fast moving river, you might die. I've done alot of 'risky' sports, downhill mtn. biking, ski/snowboard racing, skateboarding, rock climbing, etc., etc.

I know when I climb up a 1000 foot cliff face, I might fall. I know when I point my bike/skis/snowboard straight down the hill, I might hit a tree. I know now as I practice ferry-ing across the class I creek, I might flip over, suck up a bunch of wawa, and drown.

The natural selection comment is right on. Mix in a dose of regular bad luck, and pure bad timing, and anyone of us can go. We all know this. This is part of the draw, part of the fun.

I started off, ten years ago, with a basic class, morning on the lake, eddy turns, and wet exits. I think your standard human is born knowing the basics of a wet exit. Get out of the boat! thats about it.

AS Im pinned underwater, in my last moments of life, I will not wish I had been certified, or blame society for not making me. Im gonna think about my friends and family and say a quick prayer. By the same token, I wont get too down when I hear 'tuber drowns whereever' or 'kayaker lost on blah blah blah'. This to me is just natural. We all get in our cars and shuttle to where ever. I would agrue that the drive to and fro is equally as risky as white water kayaking.

Also when it comes down to it, if you look at a river, and it looks like no problem to you... I say go for it. Heros and legends have been made by less.
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Old 07-01-2006   #24
rock island, Tennessee
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23
YES! certification for everyone..for the good of the sport.

Just send your check for $100 to 345 powerhouse rd, Rock Island tn and I'll send you an official certificate of your boating skills and expereince.

Please include your boating skills and experience.

The World Kayak Association is proud to be of service, I'll have a logo once you send your $.

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Old 07-01-2006   #25
BastrdSonOfElvis's Avatar
Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
Hey, personal check is all right? It's all set, I just need a zip code and I'll pop it in the snail.
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 07-01-2006   #26
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
To funny

These all all the same things that were said back when SCUBA started their cert. cards.

The type of card I had in mind was for a beginner paddler not a card to say "I can huck anything anywhere".

"this person has shown the basic skills of wet exit, paddle strokes and T-Rescue"
Don't do anything, just stand there.
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Old 07-01-2006   #27
Gary E's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 739
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Jesus Ras, you need to worry about you! Stop trying to regulate. People should be responsible for their own actions. Don't you ever get tired of being so rightous and all knowing? While you're at it, you should get everyone who's done a first descent to sit at their rapid and make sure each person wanting to paddle it gets screened before putting on. I can't believe you bring this stupid shit up constantly and second, that you feel you're somehow better equiped and capable of making decisions for others. For instance--"can you wet exit?" who frickin cares if they can or can't wet exit? Maybe they just roll in whatever the hell they want. Or maybe they just "wet exit" everytime they flip. Get off your high horse and worry about yourself and stop posting stupid shit like this.

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Old 07-01-2006   #28
rock island, Tennessee
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23
Like Scuba

Like Scuba, there's always someone ready to make you pay big $$ to give you a card that says you aren't totally stupid about the use of the equipment. Can you have a friend show you buddy breathing and the use of your stuff, basic rules, and safety precautions - yes.

Should you then go to Cosumel and drift dive at night, or cave dive after one session with a friend: NO!

The cert keeps renters and rentees safer. Do kayakers NEED an "I'm not an inexperienced kayaker who lies'' certificate, or do we let people assume the risk for their own actions?

It's really tempting to jump and and take people's money, but I'm not sure it would make the sport safer for anyone but the ignorant who exaggerate their experience. If I tell my BASE Chute rental shop that I've got 100 jumps, i feel I'm taking responsibility for my own level of risk. Natural selection at work. Just my .02$

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Old 07-01-2006   #29
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
So nice that everyone ass u me's on this site.

Were did I say you should be charged big bucks?????????? Where did I even say you shold be charge at all???????

Where did I say anything about advanced boaters having to show card to "cops"

"who cares if they can wet exit??" well if a person CAN"T roll and CAN"T wet exit I hope EVERYONE knows HOW togive CPR.
Don't do anything, just stand there.
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Old 07-01-2006   #30
caverdan's Avatar
C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,442
I've had this same type of conversation over caver certification. The jist was gaining entry to private caves and having your own insurance cover you. Luckly it hasn't caught on yet and waivers are still the norm for getting past the insurance issue. Lord help us if you have to become certified to go caving................or floating down the river in rented gear. I like the waiver idea and let Darwin figure out who is smart enough to use it.

I vote not to push certification until it is a forced issue, of some type. The root of all evil is behind it.......Money!

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