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Old 08-07-2008   #31
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by David Spiegel View Post
...he gives exposure the sport which brings in new money for the industry and helps benefit growth.
I hear you. My struggle is with growth being a good thing. We could probably debate this point to the chagrin of our fellow buzzards but here's how I see it.

Growth, meaning more people participating in the sport, means more demand on a limited supply. Yes, more whitewater parks may be developed, but have we made any progress toward having a better ratio of resources for boaters? I don't think the construction of parks has kept pace with participation. The rivers can't get bigger and there won't be more of them, only more people using them. Perhaps conservation and access awareness increase (I'm not sure this is true but let's say it is for the sake of arguement) but so does the environmental impact caused by the use. More boaters equal more trampled shoreline, more trash, more cars driving to rivers, more broken/obsolete boats in a landfill. Does the conservation and awareness outweigh the impact? Unlikely in my opinion. Frankly I'd take a Dancer on any quiet river over a run on the Ark in a Burn.

As a backcountry skier, I've thought about this same arguement when serveral years ago the editor of Couloir touted the 'growth of the sport' as a good thing. So, although it may have seemed like I was being an ass when I posted my question, I was serious and I have given it more than a little thought.

Cheers man. Happy boating.


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Old 08-07-2008   #32
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 787
I'm no expert on the growth of whitewater kayaking participation but as far as I understand, there has not been much in the last 10 years. Paddlesports as a whole (touring, rec etc) have grown while the whitewater market segment has stayed flat.

What has improved and grown are the number of on water resources (ww parks), communcation (like this forum) resulting in conservation etc... and gear/equipment, driven predominantly by paddlers/athletes/manufacturers who love the sport too much to stop making and improving ww gear/boats. Many companies have had to merge or diversify to allow them to continue being a part of the whitewater industry but still have awesome whitewater product/programs.

Like everything, this is just my experience - I don't live on the front range battling lots of other users all at once in the parks. However, parks just concentrate people, which is why it seems like there are more participating overall (which is actually one of the goals of them).

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Old 08-07-2008   #33
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
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Shit, I know shits fucked up right now. With all that starving bullshit, global warming, dust storms, war, we runnin out of french fries and burrito coverings. Thats why I'm votin for Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. He's got a 3 point plan to fix everything.

Vote Camacho

Your opinion doesn't matter when you're already biased.
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Old 08-07-2008   #34
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Just saw the YouTube clip, it is really funny...did you notice his head is tilted to the right the whole clip..

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Old 08-08-2008   #35
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Denver, Colorado
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Tao, get a new web designer; some of the html on your campaign site is borked.
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Old 08-08-2008   #36
Join Date: Dec 2003
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To the anti-growth crowd... Does the thought of limiting growth only apply to new comers to the sport from this point on, from the day after you began the sport (thus grandfatherinng your participation) or retroactively to a time before you began the sport thus eliminating the ability of yourself to participate in the future?
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Old 08-08-2008   #37
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we can do a poll of who has been paddling the longest. Those who have been paddling for more than 10 years are grandfathered in. The rest have to take up golf. maybe I should run for office.
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Old 08-08-2008   #38
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 212
People quit the sport, or just paddle less and less, too. I see the argument here is that bigger is not better. The idea is to improve quality in all facets, be it river access, conservation, better boat design, etc. I argue that growth doesn't necessarily improve that.

On a different note, I still think taob is an impostor. But to get back to the core of the thread, I think it's respectable that he, or anyone, would want to do something for the greater good. I'm not sure Tao understands what he's getting into though. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-08-2008   #39
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 272
i think if anything is retarding our sport it's the price of gas... and eforums where nameless faceless people can call out each other and disrespect each other from the comforts of their own homes. this was, at one time, a sport where people had to respect each other and the diversity of paddlers b/c it was so small that you actually needed one another to get on and off the river.

I say good for Tao for nutting up. seems like a trend he's followed his whole life. an ego is something that you can't live without in Class V+ creeking and politics. if we had a few more leaders in our sport like that here in Colorado we wouldn't have such a complacent community of paddlers afraid of rocking the status quo.

as a class V creeker he knows the benifits of "participating in your own self rescue" which i would hope would help him instill good old fashion libertarian empowerment in his people and not succumb to the modern day ass-wiping Democratic party.

Keep the faith Tao!

-Trevor Metzger
"I would drag my balls across broken glass just to hear her fart into a walkie talkie" -Jay Drury
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Old 08-08-2008   #40
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
Has anybody really noticed any more real kayakers than there were 5 or 10 years ago? Sure, more chachis with boats on their Xterras but one Saturday when the #s was around 3Gs I didn't see a soul on the Ark, not one other person outside the 2 dudes I was with.

I don't think this sport will ever burst at the seams because of the inherent danger. Your average American has no interest in drowning and thinks we're crazy.

I bet 9 out of 10 people that buy their first kayak never buy another one, and that first one sits in their garage and collects dust.

And who cares how many people are at a play park? Go run some shit.

So growth? No matter what the sales figures say I think growth is imaginary. Except that one on your ballsack, you should get that checked out.

I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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