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Old 11-04-2004   #51
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
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Mr. toxic man you summed up the problem

[/quote]h2oxtc Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:26 am Post subject:


That is why you people lost. Keep it up, it makes it easy for us.

Mr.toxic-you have summed up perfectly as to why humans just can't learn from the past. You think you are different and better than the other person. I have some news for you...Your shit stinks just as bad as everybody elses. You say "us" like you are so righteous. It actually sounds exactly like what something Bush would say. Are you better than me or the next person? How big can your ego be? Your attitude is the problem!!!! I am not blaming don't know any better. You were born into this attitude from the help of your family and social heredity. But lose this attitude of, "I'm better than you"

Start looking past this attitude of "It's a Me or You world." This attitude is what is and has been destroying this planet and humans since the beginning. This was what the caveman once thought..."You have food, I don't! I will kill you and eat your food." Its you or me, right?

Do you think if we shifted our reality to a "Its a You AND Me" world that maybe we could actually get past the 2nd grade in the game of life. Just a thought !! I find the more I live this attitude the more good things seem to come my way. It's not about me's about us, our community, our place to live, our planet!!!

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Old 11-04-2004   #52
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
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Just keep watchin everybody, h2o's about to say something stupid...just like his President.

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Old 11-04-2004   #53
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Well lets see, where to start. You people are so easy to predict. It sounds as if you were running the Kerry campaign so keep it up and help the next Dem candidate.

Blowtorch: Despite what you think, he is your president too. With him in office for a 2nd term, things will change. You may get some of what you want policy wise, like he has already given you, but he is going to make the changes to make this a better country fiscally. Social Security is going to change. Hopefully the tax system is going to get revamped like it needs too, instead of just raising your taxes to take care of it. Despite what you think, it is bad to have a surplus, but it is also bad to have a huge deficit (you already have stated that). 9/11 is a big chunk of the deficit along with the Iraq war. There is a price for war but I am willing to have a deficit to be free and safe. When more people feel comfortable starting business there will be new jobs created by the people who were afraid of starting a business since Kerry was telling them that they are going to get taxed even more. Now they have a little piece of mind and they will go forward. Hence, more taxes paid, more jobs available and less poverty. Your next comment will be: but they are low paying jobs. Its better than nothing isn't it, or is welfare better. I know, you cant watch Oprah if you get a job.

Marco: I have never once claimed to be better than anyone else, I simply stated you are in charge of your own life and which ever way you choose to go is your choice. Don't blame your failures on someone else, take a little responsibility for your actions. For you to say that I am an elitist is ridiculous since you supported one of the biggest elitist to ever seek office. Unbelievable. I am offended that you think you know me, you have no idea what I stand for or what I believe. I have expressed an opinion and you bash me for it. Typical. Just so you know, I donate a lot of my time to help underprivileged kids learn to participate in sports. I help them to get scholarships for continued education and I continue to mentor them even after they go to college. What have you done. I have respect for the environment and I would never do anything that would hurt said environment. On the other hand I don't go and hug a tree daily so I guess I just don't get it. I do on occasions wear Birks with socks though. I just think people need to take a little responsibility for themselves.

PhillyBoop: I couldn't have been more surprised when I woke up on Wednesday. I commend the Kerry camp for doing the right thing.

gh and mattyb: I would guess that I am older than you are. I have not talked with my parents about politics since I lived at home. They are one of you and I don't feel the need to discuss something that they refuse to listen, not unlike yourselves. Maybe you would like to go and play some bingo sometime, pops, then I can share my opinions with you and maybe we can even share a bingo card while you enlighten me. jj
Pretty much everything that you babble about Bush is some kook theory spawned by the left.

Bush skipped out on his military service, right. Look at the facts, he was a pilot, the war was in the ending stages and there wasn't a demand for pilots to be sent over there. He took the early out just as many other officers who were pilots did. You are right, Kerry did go to Vietnam but what he did while he was there is still in question. Bush released all of his military records, why wouldn't Kerry do the same. I think we both know why. It was simply a political move and he deserves nothing more than to be the hero that he is (see Communist museum in Vietnam). To come back and to do the things he did to his fellow countrymen and fellow soldiers is disgusting. Have a little respect for the people that put their lives on the line so that he could do his little protests. I am not saying that he or anyone should not be allowed to protest but to come home and out and out lie is a different story.
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Old 11-04-2004   #54
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Flowtorch- excellent prediction, how'd you know?
The attendant at Ted's Place: "And from now on if I'm working when you come in here, you take as much Nacho Cheese for your burrito as you want- it's on me (wink)."
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Old 11-04-2004   #55
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Goatboater, I am guessing this isnt the only place you guys stroke each other. Just an observation.
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Old 11-04-2004   #56
Denver, Colorado
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TOXIC----What part of your first quote..."That is why you people lost. Keep it up, it makes it easy for us" ...have anything to do with what you just wrote me. "I simply stated you are in charge of your own life and which ever way you choose to go is your choice. Don't blame your failures on someone else, take a little responsibility for your actions."

I am sorry but I guess i just didn't interpret the first quote with the way you have rewritten it now. If you would have simply written what you wrote the second time on your first quote I probably wouldn't have replied the way I did. The written and spoken words are very powerful...maybe next time you should write them with a little more thoughtfulness. I simply replied to your first quote because it came off as very self righteous. Maybe you didn't intend for me and others to interpret them that way buy I did as others might have as well.

I don't pretend to know who you are. I quite honestly don't really care if I ever know you. It's nothing personal...I just don't care if I ever cross your path. I expressed my opinion of your written words and yes...I did bash you. I picked your quote to express my personal view of what is wrong with humans.

I am glad you stand up for your beliefs. I respect somebody who stands up for their beliefs even if I don't agree with them. I think that it is awesome that you help underpriviledged kids to find other possibilities. That is a very commendable thing to do. You seem like you have a lot of faith in the Republicans and the GW way. I am happy for you. Just don't make the mistake in thinking your way is the RIGHT way...and I am not saying that your are. Faith is an amazing thing. Everybody needs to have faith in something. I think where faith gets a bad name is when people think their faith is the RIGHT faith. It's why the Jehovahs Witness knocks at your door. He assumes his faith is the right way and tries to push it onto you. I know I get frustrated when a Jehovahs tries to tell me I am going to hell because I won't agree with THEIR WAY!!

NOW, Imagine the way the Middle East people feel. Is our way of Demcracy, the Right way? That should be THEIR ANSWER! It should not be Bush's. Bush is essentially the pesky Jehovah pushing his way onto them....THE SCARY THING IS HE IS DOING IT WITH GUNS AND BOMBS!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a no wonder they hate us and run planes into our buildings. I am not taking sides...I am simply trying to show an example of both sides. This idea of, We are Right...They are not, does not work!! The ironic thing here is...they think the same way!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry that I used you, TOXIC, as an example of what displeases me about humans. I was simply using your quote to express my opinion of what is wrong. What I wrote applies to the majority of the human race, not just you.

I stand behind the idea of until we can shift our way of thinking from a "You OR me" world into a "You AND Me" world we are doomed to repeat this same crap over and over. The you or me attitude is old and worn's like listening to a broken record. If you really think about this it will start to make sense. This stuff I write isn't original, its not some hippie tree hugging crap. Many great teachers have tried to get it into our thick skulls. We just don't seem to listen.

There is a possibility of humans living on this earth without killing and hurting each other. America is not leading by example. The possibility is out my humble opinion GW will not leads us there. He is to busy stuffing his pockets with Saudi gold and pushing HIS WAY onto the world. maybe you see it differently...toxic/GW lovers...but this is the way I see it. I hope you can respect that as I respect your view. Hell, I don't think Kerry would have lead us to this possibility either!

Politics isn't the answer to the deep reality of what is happening to all of humanity. That answer lies within ourselves.

All right...enough said from me. I gotta find a way to go boating...this computer shit just doesn't cut it!

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Old 11-05-2004   #57
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Mr. Toxic, I really don't see why you find the need to make this a personal matter. We're not out to get you, we're simply talking about our political beliefs. Grow up a little man. For your information, I don't have a clue in hell as to who Flowtorch is in real life, and no, I've never stroked him and he's never stroked me. You, however, should really get out sometime and get a girlfriend so that you can stop spending so much time sitting in front of your computer stroking yourself while you bash on people because they can see that Bush is LYING. Go kayking dude, seriously.
The attendant at Ted's Place: "And from now on if I'm working when you come in here, you take as much Nacho Cheese for your burrito as you want- it's on me (wink)."
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Old 11-05-2004   #58
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Marco, I don't think my first quote was directed at specifically you just at Dem's in general. It wasn't meant to be a jab or anything. I should have rephrased I guess. I agree that their are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle lies the truth. It is just a little odd to me that all of you think my point of view is the wrong one and your views are the right ones, and you are saying that I think that way. You are just on the side of the majority on this forum but obviously not in the nation. But then again who knows what the people think that didn't vote. Maybe next election more will participate and we can have a true leader of the people.

I don't see what GW is doing, as a bad thing. The people there want to be free, right? Don't they deserve to be free? Can they be free under a dictator? Can they be free if they get to vote but are directed to vote for specific candidate and the only candidate? If they want to be free, and they do, who is going to help them, France, Germany, Canada. I don't think so. The only country that has the ability and the compassion to help these countries end the tyrannical control that their leaders have over them, is the US. Don't they deserve that. The ones that don't want freedom are the terrorists. It isn't in their best interest to have a democracy because that would put an end to the gravy train. They hate everyone that isn't with them and they don't care what you think, they just want to kill you and anyone that stands in their way. You may say that is what we are doing but I don't see it that way. The terrorists want control over them and we just want to give them control over themselves. We don't want their country, their oil, or anything that they have, we just want a world were we don't have to worry about terrorist blowing up schools and reigning terror over everyone that doesn't stand up for themselves. To think that our leader is simply in it for the oil is naive and way off base. If that was the case don't you think that we would have all of the oil we want by now or even a 51st state. What is in it for him? Do you think they are just going to give us oil or are we going to steel it? Now that we are there the terrorists are going THERE to help their friends, other terrorists, and they are like shooting fish in a barrel. I would rather do it there than in LODO. Yes we are loosing troops but the amount of men and women that have lost their lives (God Bless them) in Iraqi is just barely more the amount of people murdered in any major city in the same amount of time. It is unfortunate that anyone has to die but the people that are in our military knew what they were getting into when they signed up and that there was a chance that they would have to go to war and possibly loose their lives. They made a noble choice and they felt that it was their calling. That is commendable and I give them the utmost respect for that. I will be forever indebted to them and I pray for them every day.

We have an obligation to help everyone that needs it and an obligation to stand up for what is right. FREEDOM

I received an email that really made me think about what is going on in Iraqi and why we are there. You may not like it or may think it is an exaggeration but it is pretty good.

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our Country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window. He told him: "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and see that man come out of his house with his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father. You see all of this son.... what do you do?"


"What do you do son?"

"I call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations and they take your call, listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?"

"Dad, but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?" "What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down the door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in he window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"



Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him... "Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help...people who needs it....and they won't help....You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself ...Daddy.....I can't look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things'm just going to close the I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husbands questions and he tells him...."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door..."WHAT DO YOU DO?"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs my son to his chest and hugs him tight, and cries..."It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone,'s too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen is the greatest EVIL of all. Our President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must understand that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove evil men from power so that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look out our window. So that my nine year old son won't grow up in a world where he feels that if he just "closes" that blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"


"One's philosophy is not best expressed in words; it is expressed in the choices one makes...and the choices we make are ultimately our responsibility."

-Eleanor Roosevelt
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Old 11-05-2004   #59
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 27
goatblower, its not personal, just firing back a bit and I am certainly not afraid that you would come after me, you can if you want though. I have plenty of time to get out while you are at work. My wife gets a kick out of reading some of the ridiculous things that have been said on this forum just like I do. This is entertainment for me since there isnt any hockey on TV. Bastards, sorry different subject. I would go out and boat but I spend about the same amount of time in my boat as swimming. Not a good time of year for that. I just learned a year ago and dont have a ton of time to get better during the summer. Sure is fun though. Sorry if I offended but I thought it was funny.
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Old 11-05-2004   #60
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h20 I don't generally chime in so late in a thread but I read your email quote and I think it makes a really good point. Bush thinks like a 9 year old. Unfortunately it is not as simple as the neighborhood analogy.

Damn I Look Good.
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