Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-08-2009   #21
Avon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 51
True that it may not have mattered, however, it is a very basic safety device.
If this simple thing is looked over, what else was?

The cold could very easily have sent them into shock, and it went down from there. But the helmet is still very important in my eyes, as much so as a PFD.

the_skin_eater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009   #22
FrankC's Avatar
Golden, CO
Paddling Since: 1856
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by littlebit View Post
Declined wearing helmets... wow. To me, this says they didn't have any idea of the possible consequences. How sad.
I heard on the local news that they had helmets but accidently left them in somebodys car. Probably wouldn't have made a bit of diference in this situation.

FrankC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #23
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
I heard on the local news that they had helmets but accidently left them in somebodys car. Probably wouldn't have made a bit of diference in this situation.
In Elflaco's posting Chaffee County Sheriff Tim Walker was quoted as saying that the helmets were left in the vehicle intentionally, after they declined to wear them. That clearly shows they didn't understand what they were actually undertaking...too bad no one was there to question them, and maybe talk them out of it, or recommend a better stretch...

my condolences.
lmyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #24
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700

I hope if and when I make a mistake on the river a bunch of boaters who have been in the sport for five years or less can get on a forum and let my kids know how stupid I was.

He had been boating for 25 years. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt. He will live with the helmet choice and consequences of his decisions that day forever.
Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #25
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 69
benefit of the doubt? give me a fucking break.
catfishjon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #26
Beardance42's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 238
Every river fatality is a tragedy, and I feel great sympathy for the families involved.

Having said that, I was extremely disturbed to see this story on 9News - maybe not so much the story, which just repeats the known facts, but this weird notion that "debate rages about rafting" as a result of this and the other fatalities this year. | Colorado's Online News Leader | Debate over rafting rages in wake of accident

I know I'm probably preaching to the choir on this board, but seriously - Colorado is all about altitude, slope and runoff. All can can have lethal consequences if not appropriately respected. The suggestion that seems to waft through this piece is that private boaters are too irresponsible to enjoy these sports, and that everyone should be guided by commercials (as if fatalities don't happen on commercial trips). I have little doubt that the commercials just love to read headlines like this, since they can be prone to looking down their noses (or worse) at private boaters, and any restrictions placed on private boaters just expands their business and eases their access. (Note: I am NOT saying they cheer over private boater fatalities at all - I don't deny their humanity, I merely question sometimes their attitude about sharing the river with us privates...)

Sorry if I sound conspiratorially hysterical here, but in my mind, as a near-twenty year rafter and someone who, to a fault, stays away from runs I don't feel comfortable doing, I get infuriated that some "debate" exists, or should exist, about private boaters running rivers.

There is no debate. Mother Nature offers her gifts, she invites us to enjoy and appreciate them, but bitchslaps those who don't respect her dominance. End of story.
Beardance42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #27
DurangoSteve's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,907
This "raging debate" is nothing more than a fabrication of a news "reporter" trying to come up with a new "angle" on a tragic accident. As a recovering journalist, I know all too well the pressure from editors to come up with a "fresh take" on an existing news story. In this case, it's just amateurish, irresponsible "journalism." The "reporter" and the "editor" both failed miserably.
You can never step into the same river; for new waters are always flowing on to you. - Heraclitus of Ephesus
DurangoSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #28
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 772
I can see how that hit a nerve with you but, would you take three inexperienced people down a run at 160% of the flow that the commercial companies are cut off from running it? Then give them the option of if they want to wear a helmet or not? There is a reason that section isn't regularly rafted at those high of flows. From the quote I don't think the Sheriff (Walker) realized that it was shut down to commercial rafting. That's a sheriff who I'm sure doesn't like people dying on the river either and telling people to go with commercial companies is the smart thing to say for someone in his position.

To say that the commercials "love to read headlines like this" is ignorant. They lose business by people dying on the river, private or commercial, because now someone who was on the edge of going or not will think they are going to die if they go. Every time there is a fatality on any river in the state the phones stop ringing at the rafting companies.

BTW I didn't read the new article until after posting this because I just assumed is was the same one they keep posting as new since it happened. Even though I read that differently than you, it was saying that experience, preparedness, and knowledge are the most important factors not private vs. commercial.
Nathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #29
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 141
Much of the same could be said about skiing. I don't trust my skills to evaluate avalanche danger so my risk tolerance is very low and won't go out unless conditions are bombproof. I prefer to pay a ski area to maintain an acceptable level of risk. I'm glad commercial rafting outfits are out there to provide such services to people who are not willing or able to dedicate the time and effort to become a competent rafter*. If the general public is nervous about independent rafting that could be a good thing. If someone really wants to learn the sport, they will and things like this could encourage rational assessment, education, and a slow progression. Its very easy in a situation like this (single raft, inexperienced paddlers, no helmets) to let little things add up to ugly consequences.
*not an assessment of the guide involved here
Vaya Con Rios!

MikeG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009   #30
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
would you take three inexperienced people down a run at 160% of the flow that the commercial companies are cut off from running it?
Pardon my ignorance... who/what agency prohibits commercial outfitters from running Pine Creek when it's running above a certain flow threshold? Is there a statute prohibiting this, an agreement, or ??? Thanks for any info.

dirtbagpinner is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Incident on the Dolores TakemetotheRiver Whitewater Kayaking 4 05-12-2009 09:43 AM
Big Thompson Incident??? Nathan Whitewater Kayaking 2 06-11-2008 02:41 PM
incident on the gunnison? yetigonecrazy Whitewater Kayaking 36 06-03-2008 12:51 PM
Poudre Tuber Incident bosco Whitewater Kayaking 2 05-28-2006 09:31 AM
unfortunate tresspass incident onebakedpotato Whitewater Kayaking 14 07-14-2005 07:04 AM

» Classified Ads
Jackson Karma (Medium)

posted by Paddling Life

Brand Spankin' New 2016 Jackson Karma Creek kayak!

Used Pyranha 9R...

posted by Rendezvous River Sports


Jackson SuperStar

posted by bodhizafa

Jackson Superstar kayak, black color. In ok condition. ...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.