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Old 06-12-2006   #11
no tengo
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Baytopia, Colorado
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Old 06-12-2006   #12
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Seattle, Washington
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Just wanted to throw in on river politics. I'm completely against requiring life jackets to get into the river. I'm also against seat belt laws for adults. If you want to make a stupid personal decision - that's your choice and not one the government should make for you. I do encourage people to wear jackets and belts, but why does everything that one person believes is stupid need a law. I should mention that throwing your body off waterfalls in a silly piece of plastic is extremely dangerous and stupid, but none of you are out to make a law against it even though it might save someone's life.

I'm all for signage and education, not for rules and laws.

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Old 06-12-2006   #13
no tengo
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Baytopia, Colorado
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i have to agree - but...

say you have a no helmet wearing motorcyclist who wrecks and has permanent brain damage thus requiring medicare or workers comp or some expense that drains the economy somehow. not to mention lung cancer patients who smoked all their life, etc. etc.

many permitted rivers required a pfd - so i don't see why a city should not be allowed to require one. i agree that banning boating all together or banning certain type of craft is just plain stupid.

tough question to be sure. err on the side of personal freedom though.
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Old 06-12-2006   #14
pnw, Washington
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I am not a fan of regulation but when it came to the Pueblo decision, I campaigned to the city council for it. Before the law it left the policing of the ww park to kayakers and it was just not a good time. Something had to be done to make people think. I am all for people making their own decisions but with such easy access to the water in Pueblo something had to be done.
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Old 06-12-2006   #15
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Grand Dysfunction, West Slope, Colorado
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Joe, you sure challenge my perspectives with your ideas..... shocking and true at the same time. It seems prudent to use and encourage the use of pfds, without requirement, yet one also has the duty to inform those not doing so of the risks involved.

Much love on the river to you all. It sucks to lose any life, let us prevent further losses please.
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Old 06-12-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by heliodorus04
You may recall a 14-year old drowned there last year in the PlayPark while tubing without a PFD.

Actually, he and his cousin were going down on an inflatable mattress. Pueblo is a kinda low-income sorta place and the kids just use what ever they find in the garage: tube, mattress, k-mart raft, pool floaty... Of all the kids I've seen there since the park was built, not a single parent has been with them at the river. Almost none of their families have made buying lifejackets a priority, let alone quality gear made for moving water.

Along the bike path, about the middle of the park, there is a home-made memorial cross with flowers, like the kind you see on the side of the highways. Maybe that reminder has saved few of the kids from getting in the water.
"So in two seconds, away we went, a sliding down the river, and it did seem so good to be free again and all by ourselves on the big river and nobody to bother us." -Mark Twain (The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn)
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Old 06-13-2006   #17
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Just to bring up more possible innacuracies...

I did the buttress section last night and it was pretty stompy in there. Some big holes form up above 300 and I was completely stopped several times trying to get through.

As I was going through I was saying to myself "who in the hell would get in here with a tube".

Well, when I got to the bottom a guy mentioned that the he was there the day the kid died and saw the body. Apparently he wasn't in the buttress section proper... but rather he put in just above the bridge that cross's boulder creek before heading up the canyon, or better stated, he put in just in front of that row of nice houses along the creek at the bottom of the butress.

I was not there, but asked the guy for sure and he was certain on his end. Just goes to show that the press is rarely accurate unless you are a 60 minutes caliber outfit. Bad info sucks, and so does the person who wrote that article if in fact he was this inaccurate.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather...To skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... WOW !!!! What a ride!!!!!!"
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Old 06-13-2006   #18
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Another article that upsets me:,00.html

I just wrote a letter to the author and editor regarding this quote and explained 'foot entrapment' to them and admonished them for including it in the story.

"In reality, it's not that bad," she said. "If you feel you're in trouble, you just stand up. There are only a few places where it's not shallow enough to stand."
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Old 06-13-2006   #19
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The Ranch, Colorado
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Wow. What a gaper!

There's a reason my professional newspaper career lasted 3 days...

(that's the first time since I started boating last year that I've felt justified calling someone a gaper...)
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Old 06-13-2006   #20
Denver, Colorado
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I talked to two non-boating folks last night and today who both told me the same type of story... Friend goes to tube boulder creek thinking its a fun mellow thing to do, friend then proceeds to lose flip flops, camera, get beat up, and get the shit scared out of them. Unfortunately I think that people see others with a tube and a smile and think its fun, which is not always the case.

As for life jacket laws, I am wary on this one. More regulation does not mean more safety and could lead to worse access and more issues. Its a slippery slope and must be done correctly. If worded correctly, I would not be opposed a law that would require PFDs on class III and above whitewater. This would not impact kayakers and rafters, as they wear them anyway. It would still allow for mellow tube trips on class I-II, but it would provide some distinction and warning. The problem is that most lawmakers are not boaters, and if laws start getting made as knee jerk reactions, boaters could suffer.

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boulder, boulder creek

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