Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2005   #21
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by gh
It certainly wouldnt hurt to close the ww park to tubers, swimmers over something like 800 cfs or for a certain time period but as I stated there are signs saying that a pfd is required.
Exactly the subjective point. Why don't we close the river off to tubers, etc. when the level is above 1 cfs? 800cfs? or 2000cfs? Who knows what level is sketchy enough to warrant a closing? Nobody, and it doesn't matter.

We have signs that say "PFDs required". Yet, it doesn't matter. People still go down the thing without PFDs.

Yes, there is governmental immunity, however there are exceptions to it (i.e. where the entity waives immunity). This may fall within an exception.

Staj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #22
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14
If you are interested, here is one exception to governmental immunity (meaning; if this is the case, the entity waives immunity and can be sued):
A dangerous condition of any...public facility located in any park or recreation area maintained by a public entity...or swimming facility.

Nothing in this paragraph...shall be construed to prevent a public entity from asserting sovereign immunity for an injury caused by the natural condition of any unimproved property, whether or not such property is located in a park or recreation area or on a highway, road, or street right-of-way.

This doesn't mean that they would be successful, only that they could try.

Staj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #23
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
The city of Pueblo is going to feel compelled to do something in order to keep the White Water Park open. I've suggested they could copy either the Golden example (design) or the Boulder example (law). There is no perfect way, but if the park is too stay OPEN, they will want to do something. Otherwise the city could just shut down a perfectly good play park. I think the White Water community could offer support and suggestions that would satisfy the needs of the city and the needs of the community.
blazeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #24
BastrdSonOfElvis's Avatar
Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
I have to agree with an earlier assessment on this thread: there is a 100% probability that a lawsuit is imminent. No one refers to their condition or that of there children as impoverished -- via the media no less. That statement was whispered in that poor woman's ear by some scumbag, bloodsucker of a dog-bite lawyer looking to cash in on a tragedy. He/she's telling her what she wants to hear: "it's not your fault, it's the city's...and we'll make them pay (of course I get half)".
Regardless of whether or not they win, a lawsuit against this municipality regarding a playpark will go a long way toward thwarting efforts in other towns and cities. And who's to say they won't win? Didn't some dipshit get millions for spilling coffee on herself? I really hope this will blow over in a couple weeks like has been suggested...but I wouldn't count on it.
BastrdSonOfElvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #25
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 42
I agree that there are exceptions to the immunity act and you quote accurate paragraphs, staj. I just think that it would be highly unlikely the city would lose. She probably is talking with an attorney, anyone is free to try and sue the city. If it were so easy to sue the city even when considering those two paragraphs in the immunity act you would see more people doing it all the time and we would hear about it more than we do. My two cents.
J Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #26
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7
Time for action indeed

One, in my mind, major point to this entire ordeal that is not being stated nearly enough is that play park or not, this happens every single year in Pueblo....probably elsewhere as well. Every year about this time, the kids get out of school, it's hot, they're bored, so they jump in the river. In one of the dozen or so articles I've read in the Chieftain and elsewhere is a fact that cannot be dismissed. Since 1999 there have been five deaths on the Ark in Pueblo. That's practically one every year. One every year before the play park was ever constructed.

It is certainly a tragedy and I am very sorry for the family. I am more upset with the mother than anything. I think most of us feel that way. Human stupidity is sometimes beyond belief. Fences, gates and even 'monitoring', as it was so put, isn't going to solve the problem. You can only tell someone to get out of the water. Whether they listen is up to them.

There is most certainly going to be some call for action in this town. I watched so many of the Pueblo Paddlers work so hard at making the dream of a park on the Ark become a reality. There will be, without a doubt, some sort of something come up in protest of the play park. It would be, and hopefully will be, nice to see fellow paddlers from across the state help do their part, whatever that may be, in defense of a great play park.
whitewater wife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #27
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 93
Chris Kelly said it well

[There is absolutly no reason to say anything negative about this mother and/or her dead child. This is a tragic death of a child which the entire community, boaters and others mourn. end of story. ]

I think the thoughts on educating the public in Pueblo to safety and hazards of moving water are useful. Please folks, let's keep a constructive focus on our contributions to such an emotionally charged topic.

I don't want to offend anyone, but feel strongly that this is not the time to find fault.
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #28
TimWalker's Avatar
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 205
I was at the park last night and just thought what a tragedy it was for the family - I also had selfish thoughts about how I love number 4 and 6 at 2200 cfs. It is great that Pueblo turned this urban eyesore into a recreational gem.

This mother is grieving right now and I'm sure she is desperate to find her son and have some level of closure to this incident. It appears she is no longer in denial and has entered the anger portion of the grieving process. I think the boating community should embrace her right now (before the scumbag lawers) by volunteering time to search for her son's body - this action may help her get through the anger phase and is also the right thing to do. Also, if some organizers out there could arrange a benefit rodeo at the play park to raise money for burial costs and to raise awareness of river safety it would do a world of good to show our sincere goodwill.

On a similar note, two boys (13 and 14) died in Colorado Springs on 6/21 during an intense thunderstorm - they were somehow caught up in a storm surge in a usually almost dry creek. The surge was enough to carry one boy all the way to fountain creek, that's six miles down a rocky storm basin. Both incidents are a huge opportunity for community learning to occur so the deaths of these boys aren't in vain.

While it is easy to dig our heals in and attempt to protect our self interests, we should instead embrace the parents of these children by bringing awareness to the dangers and power of water, whether it is a storm drainage or a whitewater park.

Anyone out there agree? Does any Pueblo paddler out there want to lead this effort? The Edge? I can get involved but we just had a baby so I don't have a lot of time, or so says my wife.
TimWalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #29
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
The benefit rodeo is a good idea.
gh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2005   #30
pbowman's Avatar
Moab, Utah
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 245
my original comments were a knee jerk reaction. i did not intend to belittle her or her family's loss in any way, and i admit that i was not sensitive to the grief they must be experiencing. however i take complete responsibility for my statements and i have chosen not to edit the post.

any reasonable person with access to TV or radio media has been alerted to the dangers of high runoff this year. i disagree that the mother was simply uneducated - the media has brought this topic to the forefront throughout the state, and i do not see how any reasonable person could assert that they are unaware of the dangers present.

i am thankful that all of you have not persecuted me for being insensitive, and i hope a resolution is reached that is not detrimental to all the hard work of the local boating community.

pbowman is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BV action? Is there any boofyak Whitewater Kayaking 3 07-24-2006 08:24 AM
Action from 4th Annual Lyons Viper Whitewater Kayaking 1 06-13-2006 10:21 PM
¿Oaxaca Action Alguien? Matt Wilson Whitewater Kayaking 0 09-15-2005 04:40 PM
b.EAST - THP Action Video riverruth Whitewater Kayaking 0 08-24-2005 02:19 PM
Check out this Idaho action... skywalker Whitewater Kayaking 0 08-31-2004 09:34 AM

» Classified Ads
Pyranha S6F

posted by CFriday

2008 Pyranha S6F. Stopped paddling in 2008, been stored in...

2014 Rockstar Jackson...

posted by Scardenas95

Great shape, excellent boat!

Wave Sport Ethos 10

posted by davidwsilver

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.