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Old 06-23-2005   #11
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13
I've got little kids, so I feel for the family.

Boulder creek is safe, most of the time, for tubbers...
Golden is safe, most of the time, for tubbers....
My suggestion is that they modify the Pueblo WWP to be safe, most of the time, for tubbers....
This way the kayak community can still use it and tubbers can use it...

When the river is too high, they could keep tubbers off, just as they do in Boulder.

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Old 06-23-2005   #12
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 27
OK, Some of you guys need to chill way out.

This self rightous nonsense will get published and hurt not only this WW Park but the entire development of Parks like this.

There is absolutly no reason to say anything negative about this mother and/or her dead child. This is a tragic death of a child which the entire community, boaters and others mourn. end of story.

A poster above suggested contacting the City Councilman. This absolutly needs to be done in a massive way by Park users.

Some thought needs to be given to ways to prevent furture similar problems. What can boaters do to help?

Remember, this forum is public. Anybody can and will access it and use what is said here. I have never been to this Park and will probably never use it but have been involved in enough access fights and lawsuits and civic battles to see when a community (us) is shooting itself in the foot. This is neither the time nor the place for self serving, self rightous, comments regarding theses people who experienced a terrible and avoidable tragedy.

As a former AW Access Chairman, I strongly urge you to get involved with the solution and to restrain harmful comments. I realize that these comments come only from a tiny minority of the boating community and like everyone else, we have thoughtless people but they can be very harmful. Chris Kelly

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Old 06-23-2005   #13
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I'm a professional editor for a living. If anyone wants their submission to the Chieftain reviewed or critiqued, contact me via private message at this site and I'll give you my personal e-mail address.
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Old 06-23-2005   #14
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Laramie, Wyoming
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I don't see how the Mom could successfully sue the city on this, an unsupervised 14, 12 and 9 year old walk past a big sign saying you need lifejackets on the river, and one of them drowns. Very sad, but in no way is the city liable to fence off the area or provide life gaurds.

I agree, with the previous poster, they just need to shut down the river to tubers when they know it is going to be high in the spring. Boulder has been doing this for years, the police put up a bunch of fliers about a week before the run-off hits, and then they wait for the water to come down to reasonable levels before opening it again.
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Old 06-23-2005   #15
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Boulder, Colorado
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I think it's easy to forget that most people don't have the context for accessing the danger of whitewater that experienced boaters do. Without that context it's not a person being stupid, it's just being unknowledgeable. For kids of teenagers that lack of context is just exacerbated by the exuberance of youth.

A partial shutdown ala Boulder and signs warning of the danger, the severity of the water level (like the fire signs: lower/medium/high) or "people have died here", etc. is a great idea.

I really believe the solution is to educate people using these parks that are not experienced in whitewater, and of course enforcing existing laws like the life jacket.
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Old 06-23-2005   #16
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more to the point....

More to the point is why was the kid down there, why wasn't the mother aware of what her child was doing, and why isn't she taking some reposibility here for not keeping up with what her kid does?

It could have been much the same had the kid been climbing up on the Flatirons without aid devices and falling to his death. Lord knows how many kids and college students I helped load up into a body bag there in the 70's.

The mechanism may have been the kid's unknowledgable and I will say it, STUPID act of floating in a whitewater park on an air bed, but the bottomline is his mother is as equally culpable in this. Kid's for the most part do not think in terms of consequences for actions, hence they try things. It's really quite a human thing to do so. Parents need to know what their kids are up to.
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Old 06-23-2005   #17
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 178
Many towns have big gnarly people eating white water features. How many ditches are filled with diversion dams? I guess it is always eaisier to point fingers.
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Old 06-23-2005   #18
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 42
I agree this mother is suffering a loss and is looking for some way to understand how this can happen. Blaming the WW park and the city is her outlet right now. Understandable.

I doubt she will have much luck in a lawsuit against the city if she wants to head in that direction. The Colorado Governmental Immunities Act protects governments from being sued... not to say there aren't exceptions, but I doubt if this would fall into the exception category. It would be similar to someone being struck by lighting on a city owned golf course and then pressing a lawsuit... or a person falling into a city owned lake and drowning. Neither would have much luck in their attempts.

I doubt the WW park is going anywhere as well. The park brings money and tax revenue into the city. All the people from C. Springs, Denver and other areas that come to Pueblo to use the park most likely wouldn't be coming to the city otherwise and the city council must realize that. The threat of losing the lawsuit is slim and the tax revenue generated is important. I agree with the poster who said this will blow over in a couple of weeks. For right now, it's just a sad story of the dangers involved with fast-moving, high water. A lesson for us all.
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Old 06-23-2005   #19
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Even before I became a kayaker I would have known this wasnt safe. At 2200cfs this water is moving and big but I am tired of second guessing their choices. Should have never done that in the first place. It certainly wouldnt hurt to close the ww park to tubers, swimmers over something like 800 cfs or for a certain time period but as I stated there are signs saying that a pfd is required. If another sign was installed stating that the park is closed to tubers due to high water would it stop people from going?
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Old 06-23-2005   #20
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Laramie, Wyoming
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If another sign was installed stating that the park is closed to tubers due to high water would it stop people from going?
It would keep some people off, but not all. It would provide a little more protection for the city from frivilous lawsuits.

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