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Old 09-19-2007   #41
yakrafter's Avatar
Whitewater Boater, Boating Whitewater
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 147
Caspermike, I am like half with ya,

Your lobby is your vote, companies have no vote and thus lobby, I would rather let companies have a vote than pay off the leaders thru the lobby.

Democracy, please,lets use words correctly if we are going to discuss this...Democracy, can anyone name one?

Constitution is in the closet (and on my dashboard), but why do you really think there was a revolution, for freedom, for democracy, many cases less people could vote after than before, and then still only for a person not an issue. Are you sure it wasn't to distract the poor in this country who were ready to revolt against the rich at that time? (it worked) Are you sure that the rich did not create the revolution in part to stay rich and nab british land here in the colonies? (it worked) You are right people can be arrogant to the knowledge provided and we are all influenced by the propaganda. More reading and talking about this may help your understanding and then we can team up and change things.

Daniel Shay was a terrorist that tried to revolt against this country (and perhaps rightfully so), we still have the same government, and now we name highways after him. Usually it takes a revolution to turn terrorists like Washington into a Hero. Timing is everything (so is location and who you know).

Lets bump this to the eddy (or it just seems right to do so).

Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
government starves the society that created the democracy. when they are so stubborn not to legalize the herb when there are countless reports about the benefits to medical patients? when the rich gets taxes cuts when they make more than what most of us lower class makes, even though we work countless hours! anymore the commercial usa is taking over the red white and blue that stood before. people are arrogant to knowlegde that is provided, and there are zero lobbyist for the people like me and you, we need people to stick up for us in the government and right now there isn't any.

our constitution is being put in the closet and we need to realize it.

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Old 09-20-2007   #42
davecosnowboarder's Avatar
boulder, Colorado
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Old 09-20-2007   #43
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
read the whole forum the dude was screwd.

kayakers and rafters are not one of the most liked species in this county and its bull shit.
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Old 09-20-2007   #44
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Remember when it used to be FREE to go outside and hike/climb/boat/camp etc.?
User fees are inherently illegal and unenforceable. I've literally had dozens of tickets and never paid. They are tickets of "non-compliance". Nothing has ever happened. I'm not cheap either. I donate regularly to the access fund and the ACA. It's called conscientious objection.
Do some research. The Fee Demo program was created in 1996 by a Senator from Ohio w/ 36 acres of public land in his district. It costs more money to collect fees and enforce the rules than they actually collect.
Fee demo has been voted down repeatedly in congress and always makes it back on the agenda as a rider in an appropriations bill. Pork Barrel politics.
Fact is, big business wants to privatize our public lands. All the sheep out there that never question authority are helping their cause. Thanks. How 'bout growing a pair and helping us take back our public lands?
Join the western slope no-fee coalition or arizona no-fee coalition and get involved.

If you never paid the tickets, most likely you have a warrent or two.

Fee Demo is no longer in place, and fees are now permenent. All money collected from the fees for BLM and USFS go right back to where they where collected from. They pay for the maintenance of the area facilities, to include restrooms, access roads, boat ramps, picnic areas, etc. So all those people in the no fee coalition do not use the facitlities on public lands?
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Old 09-20-2007   #45
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
This is a clear case of boater logic. $3.00 saved is a beer earned!!

Seriously, though, don't misunderstand the park rangers duties. It is in their job description to create revenue for the parks system through citations. It is not a case of a ranger being a "dick" that day, the ranger probably thinks people who try to wheasle out of paying are dicks and has no problem writing them up - no one is entitled to free use.

It is my understanding that revenues collected from tickets issued do not go back to the agency that issues them. The money from federal tickets goes to the National Crimes Victems Fund.
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Old 09-21-2007   #46
caverdan's Avatar
C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,443
Hey Fred.......did you talk your way out of this ticket yet? Just Curious

This thread reminds me of a joke I once goes something like this.

A lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a sheriff's deputy.

He thinks that he is smarter than the deputy because he is a lawyer from
New York and is certain that he has a better education then any cop from
Houston, Texas. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun
at the Texas deputy's expense.

The deputy says," License and registration, please."

"What for?" asks the lawyer.

The deputy says, "You didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign."

Then the lawyer says, "I slowed down, and no one was coming."

"You still didn't come to a complete stop, Says the deputy. License and
registration, please."

The lawyer says, "What's the difference?"

"The difference is you have to come to complete stop, that's the law.
License and registration, please!" the Deputy says.

Lawyer says, "If you can show me the legal difference between slow
down and stop, I'll give you my license and registration; and you give
me the ticket. If not, you let me go and don't give me the ticket."

"That sounds fair. Please exit your vehicle, sir," the deputy says.

At this point, the deputy takes out his nightstick and starts beating
the ever-loving crap out of the lawyer and says,

"Do you want me to stop, or just slow down?"
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Old 09-21-2007   #47
Fred Gnarquist
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carbondale, Colorado
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Posts: 403
nope not yet

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