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Old 07-13-2007   #61
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
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Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
Alright, aside from the EJ haters out's what I'd like to see the Worlds go to.

Wave Freestyle (like buseater) - Amplitude should be huge in scoring, the ride is dynamic and the winner should go huge and be rewarded for it, amonst other scoring elements

Hole Freestyle (Fibark or other similar holes) - pretty much as it is scored now

The events should be different categories.

im with tim on this one there are so many different variations of tricks that can be thrown on waves left and right blunts, you can clean them for more points, than you can air blunt, clean air blunt waves are so much more dynamic than most holes that a amplitude/style points should be given. spectator sport should mean bigger points for bigger tricks. olympic snowboarding if they go big in pipe they get huge scores simple reason its harder to perform at those levels of intesity and controll your ride and this is freestyle not ej stlye its only right especially in international competitions to award points for tricks that stand out especially to a spectators point of view. freestly is changing especially with all the combos that can be thrown "times be a changing"

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Old 07-13-2007   #62
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
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Cayo, are you trying to defend the French? Maybe you just feel bad for them because they can't defend themselves.

I love the scene in Team America: World Police when they F up Paris. There's something sublime about watching a mini Louvre explode.

The continental breakfast: weak.
Poor body hair grooming standards: gross.
Lack of personal hygeine: stinky.
And what's with all the silent letters? Is it some kind of secret code? Hold the vowels, please.

Actually, I'm just pissed because when I went to France I came home with some rockin VD. True story. Not really. I've never been to France. And I'll never go because I know it sucks!
(Cue "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood)

Caspermike...please use some punctuation. Reading your last post almost gave me a seizure.

I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 07-13-2007   #63
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Bozeman, Montana
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dude this is the intrenet! not the news paper im sure your grammar isn't perfect either.
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Old 07-13-2007   #64
KVBA TV8 Vail weatherman/Colorado Kayaker, Colorado
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Got to ask:
from you------

"And that's my exact point: The Jackson Kayak Marketing team sweeps the podium - what does that reflect? It reflects the fact that Jackson saw a whole bunch of unemployed kayakers discharged from Dagger, Wave Sport etc., etc. and decided to offer them some actual money to boat."

Really, which one of Dagger's athletes left? First I have heard of any and I manage the team. Also, "payed them actual money to boat". Last I checked we use real american currency as well. Interesting post dude. As for sweeping podiums you must be talking just freestyle as the Dagger team kills it in creek races. They swept the podium at the Homestake race, top two at the green, top male and female at Lyons, won the little white race, etc.. So tell me, what does that reflect for Dagger. You seem to know so much. Freestyle is a small portion of pro kayaking these days. Jackson kills there and has a great team, no doubt. But to focus on just that aspect is foolish. There is plenty more to paddling.

Dagger Kayaks

Also, I was at Worlds in the judges booth for four days straight right along side Kristine, Clay, Stephen (all Jackson) as the live announcer. I can say with no doubt that ALL the judges were nothing other then fair and consistant with all the scores. Sure it is a bit of a conflict of interest but they were spot on. EJ was not even top three for a few rounds, just making it through. But in typical EJ fashion he watched what others did, figured it out, then went out and did it an won. The man can compete like no other in freestyle. The whole team is awesome at freestyle competitions. But I work for Dagger, one of Jacksons competitors, and I think they did a great job at Worlds both on the water and in the judges booth.
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Old 07-13-2007   #65
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Hobie - you're right - I shouldn't have invoked Dagger's name, mostly all I was getting at was that many of the pro teams (e.g. Necky) have disintegrated in the last few years and Jackson has been picking up a lot of them. Were this something I was writing as opposed to just throwing in my opinion on an internet forum, I'd have been more specific (plus I'm writing this while doing something else, so my attention is divided).

As for there being more to kayaking than playboating - I couldn't agree with you more. I personally view rodeo as a failed experiment - apply the personality-driven, rock star lifestyle marketing angle to an "extreme" sport. It worked for a while, but it's beginning to fray at the edges.

But I think kayaking is more about communities, and to that point TVF competitions have a lot brighter future than rodeo right now.
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Old 07-13-2007   #66
KVBA TV8 Vail weatherman/Colorado Kayaker, Colorado
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Cool, cool. No worries. Dagger gets worked enough at times for stuff we have nothing to do with so when I read it I got a little pissed. And I thought more about the athlete comment. My buddy Jay Kincaid made the move three seasons ago before I became manager. But im sure he will verify he was paid well. Thanks for the clarification and forgive the pm too.
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Old 07-13-2007   #67
Denver, Colorado
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seperate the myth from reality is all I'm saying
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Old 07-13-2007   #68
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Posts: 128
Damn seven page threads

thee things suck me in like some ridiculous vortex, no productivity...

The way I see it, there is only one way to settle this debate, a way to even the score if you will:

Replay the worlds competition, but instead of allowing competitors to bring their own gear, equip them all with an inflatable porpoise and a broom, (helmets would still be mandatory, of course). Why a porpoise?? the scooped snout is better for looping than an inflatable crocodile, (which by the way has become my new steep creek vessel of choice)... Take the technology factor out of it.

Ive always been more of a Rob Lesser and Walt Blackadar fan myself. Now, we should all get off the damn computer and reconnect with society. (i'm headed out with my hunting rifle to climb up a kiosk as soon as I'm done posting....)
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Old 07-13-2007   #69
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by hobie View Post
Thanks for the clarification and forgive the pm too.
Hah! haven't checked my e-mail yet - more industrial strength nasty-grams no worries at all, Dagger is really lucky to have you.

Yeah, that's a whole different can of worms with the athletes migrating, and I'm not even going to speculate on why they make the choices they make. The one that keeps getting ignored is the Billy Harris scenario.

If the teams split down corporate lines rather than national (which, let's face it, they do) and pro kayakers are all free agents (which, let's face it, they are), then there's the bigger issue IMO: Any manufacturer with the money and the will can simply $BUY$ the podium.

Look at what happened with Billy - he had a shot, a legitimate shot, and no sponsor. So JK buys him up a week or two before the show - and I have no idea what the terms of the deal were - and sorta doubles their chances of having a first place win right on the spot. So now the competition isn't on the field, it's in "the boardroom" before the competition even starts, i.e. exhibition sport.

So how can spectators be expected to take this seriously?
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Old 07-13-2007   #70
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I have been reading this thread for days. Don't like to comment on JK stuff as it seems weird to do so when I am on the inside. BUT...

I am perplexed by your "Billy Harris" conspiracy. I am not that familiar with his arrangement with us, if I was I would not discuss it with anyone, but you are so off base with this that it's actually odd. Do you think that EJ went crawling to Billy to "JUMP ON OUR TEAM" so JK would win? Not sure where Billy even came in at, but I don't think it was very high when the dust settled.

I am not going into this any more than to advise that Billy is one of the nicest guys I have met. He is cordial, ready to help, and great at advice at the right times. He's actually pretty funny too. These are the things that embody the JK persona. For those reasons and to add (the fact that he is a great wave rider), he was welcomed to join JK. Yes it happened while EJ was pre running the wave, but little more than the fact that they know each other well, have been talking about this move for him for some time prior and the fact that they had just come back from 4 weeks training together on the Nile Special is why this happened and happened when it did...

But please man... quit with the conspiracy theories. This is kayaking man. Yes it's a bit business to, but if you knew EJ, it's all about kayaking 1st 2nd 3rd 4th and the business simply happens because the designs are great and a good vibe is present in the paddle community.


"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather...To skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... WOW !!!! What a ride!!!!!!"
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