If this year is as good as we all hope it will be you do not want to be in a river runner to run the gnar.
i spent the last week in BC doing all sorts of class V with two pyranha team paddlers, both of whom were in burns & both of whom i have a lot of respect for. we paddled tight, technical low-volume streams as well as pushy big water rivers. we were on remote, totally committed exploratory gorges in the backcountry as well as roadside park-n-huck in town. these guys chose to paddle the burn in "the gnar" & they were both completely RAVING about it the entire trip. & i have to admit the boat looked freakin' awesome in all conditions i saw it in. those guys had no incentive to "sell" to the rest of the team, as everyone else was affiliated in some way with another manufacturer. in fact, most of their cheerleading was kinda back n forth between each other. billy jones left his boat in my garage & there's nothing internally that would suggest that it's an unsafe creeker.
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As to the conversation about new boats each year etc....I'm with the crowd that stays in one boat a few years and I agree that you get dialed in better over a longer period of time with one design....but whatdoiknow...I'm just old and set in my ways.
Kayaking is alot like bicycling...manufacturers are in the business to make new stuff and claim it's mo-betta than last years....it about $. Road bikers now have the new 10 gears on the rear cogs. Will I climb Indy Pass better with 10 or 9....hum?....I figure it's my legs more than the extra gear. Ya think?
tommy
ps: I gotta love a thread that has Gar, rasta and gh on here. How y'all doing? We've been happy lately in the Ozarks. Gar....our boys just found a new 5er steepie in (of all places) SE Oklahoma. Check it out here...
Well and here I was.....being an ass and you show up. Figures. You coming out this year? How are things?
Uh....and boat advice from you? You still in a forplay?
Well and here I was.....being an ass and you show up. Figures. You coming out this year? How are things?
Uh....and boat advice from you? You still in a forplay?
naw....I'm in a Foreploy......defined as "any misrepresentation about myself for the purpose of getting laid".
actually....I got a new old boat last year....an "X". I still think the X is a great river-runner-play-boat. Works for me and I've got hipatitis (defined - terminal coolness).
Everything is OK here. We're not sure y'all are worth $3 a gallon gas to get out there this year. We'll see later.
GRS told me that they (1) are not going to have a Burn to demo in the large size, and (2) are "not really sure" about price-matching during Paddlefest and will do it on a "case-by-case" basis. Now I try to spend locally, but with that being the response, if I get a Burn, I will buy at CKS. I will be on the Ark that weekend anyway, so it makes the choice for where to buy even easier.
Bitchin' & moanin': (1) There's no reason not to have a demo for the boats you sell in a shop - demos are purchased at a steep discount and the retailer only agrees not to sell them till a date part-way through the season. Many shops buy demos they never let out, just to earn a little extra margin once they are free to sell them. But more to the point - who wants to drop $1100 on a boat with out being able to demo it? (2) Customers don't want to hear, "Well...." as an answer to a question, esp. as to whether or not there is going to be a discount. Front Range shops matched the CKS Paddlefest prices last year, seems to me like the precedent is set if you want to sell a kayak in Denver that weekend.
You are way off base. There is no such thing as a steep discount in the boating world. I don't know where you got mislead on that one. It's costs us thousands of dollars to offer demo boats. It's not cheap. And, it's almost always a loss. The only way to make a dime on those boats is to rent them. Demoing the boats often creates so much damage that the boats at the end of the season are almost un-sellable.
Some companies don't offer discounts on the blemed boats. They might just offer extended dating. That gives us a chance to rent the boat for most of the season before we have to pay for them. The better the dating the less discount. Most manufactors only offer a 10% discount, on demo boats. And, that boat is stamped DEMO. So, it's not like your going to leave it in the wrapper and sell it as new.
And, it's totally up to the retailer if they choose to lose money on each sale by price matching. They often do it because the customer pretends to be loyal. But, you're right it's a bad idea. Because, it sets a poor precedent. It forces shops to close their doors. Look at Miser. Every deal they gave put them one step closer to closing the doors for good. If you wish to have a local shop than you might want to buy something from them.
We dropped several kayak companies over the past few seasons. Not because they didn't make fun kayaks. But, because we couldn't make any money on those boats. Because if you can't make profit off what your selling. You don't stay in business selling things. It's not called wholesale- it's called retail.
We won't be price matching during Paddlefest. It's not our sale. Our sale was a few weeks ago. We had great deals on close-out stuff. Now it's time to get back to business, and try to have a good season so we can stay open next season.
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I love to dance, but who needs the music- It throws me off.
Don, as usual a thoughtful intelligent response. Wish you guys the best and welcome back to the buzz, seems you have been gone for a while. CKS is the shop that supports us in the springs so Caspian dont hog that Large Burn during paddlefest, I want to try it as well.
With all due respect Don, I stand by my story. I was the manager of a Miser-esque shop that sold that sold the whole gamut of OR stuff and we were a Confluence dealer. I also worked several seasons in retail for NOC. I'm not blowing smoke here. It's possible that the terms offered by boat companies now are different, so maybe my info is no longer current. And I should clarify that when I say demo, I mean demo for a fee, i.e., rental.
But having said that, both of my stores made a profit on demos during the years I was there. I know that our demo discount was greater than 10% with Confluence for at least one or two years that I recall specifically. In an industry where you are netting 10-15% on a boat sale, that is a steep discount because it dramatically increases the margin at POS. Now, one of these stores didn't actually demo boats - but we still bought demos and sold them after mid-summer. The reps didn't care, we paid our bills on time.
Used demos unsellable? Not where I've been - NOC basically sells used demos at close to their cost, some more, some less, but it comes out in the wash, and they make small change on that part of the sale. But there is rental revenue in there to cover the rest of the overhead. True, a well-managed demo program is usually close to break-even in and of itself -- but when part of a comprehensive boating retail operation, it does increase overall sales.
I think you misunderstood my comments on price-matching. My point is that if I travel to BV to kayak, then BV is just as local to me as Denver. CKS sells a lot of boats to Denver people who paddle the Ark. This is different from ODP or whatever because CKS is still actually providing a service to me in person, unlike the internet. So, no doubt you would disagree with me, but I say wherever I boat regularly, that is where I am a local customer.
As I said, I would have preferred to keep my business down here, but GRS won't have a demo, and you guys dropped Pyranha -- and are you REALLY saying that Confluence can't make money selling Pyranha boats? I was told by someone in your shop just a couple weeks ago that you guys were upset because Pyranha opened up GRS, so you dropped them. Maybe that guy was just making conversation, but that sounds more realistic to me, because there are plenty of other dealers making money selling Pyranha and I find it hard to believe with your solid customer base and good reputation that you can't also do the same. It's too bad for us and for you - I can't be the only boater who would have almost certainly bought a Burn (or other Pyranha boat) from you this spring.
gh - I talked to CKS today and they have the large, but their demo hasn't arrived. They said the rep will have a large demo there in his fleet at Paddlefest though. I asked about the seat width problem that people were talking about on BT, and he said the medium was tight on him at a 34" waist. He later found my number on their caller ID and phoned me to say that he just learned Pyranha was keyed into the problem and is going to start shipping the larges with a new seat.
howdy all....just read some of this about the Burn and also was reading some complaints on BT about this boat's outfitting....
We'll see later. 
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