the burn is KILLING IT!!!!

[blutzski]

Originally Posted by Gary E

Johnny, there were 3-h3, 2-y, 1 embudo, and I was paddling a nomad. Forgot what chasen was paddling.

Glad to see the Y representin'. That what I would choose (course I've never seen the N.F. at 5.5k and there's a good chance I would have chosen a lawn chair and a beer instead of the Y in the end). Wish I could have taken the time to check it out after getting off the Bruneau. It hurt to be driving the wrong direction when there's that kind of water flowing north of you. Sounds like ya'll had a blast.

[rasta]

Hey gh. Typical buzzard that takes something personal when its not meant to be. I won't get personal here either. But I don't think I ever used the word "wrong." I believe I said I "didn't understand." Nor does me saying I'm broke mean I want to rip on the 9-5'ers. Nothing wrong with having a good job. Nothing wrong with wanting the new shit. Nothing wrong with purchasing the right boat as you're getting into the sport. I never said I wanted the sport to be stagnant with no new boats coming out. I was simply questioning our consumptive attitude, and my guess as to why people don't think about it is because we seem to want instant gratification. I could be wrong.

I paddle a Gus right now, and I love it. I think it is certainly better than my old creek boat which I broke a few seasons ago after 6-7 years of use. I don't have a playboat but paddle a redline when not in my creek boat. I would love to buy a good playboat when I can afford it. I am psyched that designs are getting better each year. But I tend to use a boat until its done and I am not taken in by the YOU NEED THE NEW SHIT advertising. That's all I was saying. Take it for what its worth.

doc rasta

[RiverWrangler]

I tend to agree with Doc Rasta on this one, though my creekboats don't seem to last me a season, much less a few seasons. I can usually make a playboat last a couple of seasons and then I decide that I want the latest playboat so that I can do the latest aerial tail grab (no wait that's in the bedroom) but my lack of playboating skills probably stems much more from the fact that I don't playboat often then from lacking any special new technology. I guess in that respect I fall prey to the marketing of new boats myself. My point is that, the point of this whole kayaking thing is... to have fun. Period.

Having the latest boat is nice but not necessary and I believe Rasta is correct when he says that we have some hardcore cosumerism type problems related to boat buying. You may think you look rad in the latest boat but to me and I know others agree that you can usually point out the most "core" paddlers by that fact that they are still paddling a Godzilla/Redline with a splash top and some neoprene tights without shorts over them.

I also think that boat plastic these days is kind of thin and maybe it is on purpose maybe it is not but boats just don't seem to last very long in Colorado. So it is kind of a double edged sword. Sometimes it is best just to sell your boat at the end of the season before it breaks and then get the latest new boat in the spring or at least a used one that isn't beaten that bad. I've always got a fresh looking new creekboat because I go through two to three a year. Whatever.

Last thing I want to throw out there because I don't want to do any more work today is that there is something to be said for paddling the same model boat for a few years. And that something is that that kind of familiarity with your boat will make you a better paddler. Your reation time for braces, boofs and rolls increases and everything becomes that much more predictable. I paddles the Y-boat from my first day on creek until a couple of years ago and towards the end of that time I basically could not be knocked upside down in that model. I knew every inch of the edge of that boat so well that my brace stroke would save me everytime. That kind of familiarity can pay off big time in class V.
Rant Over.
Evan

[gh]

Guilty as charged

[Waterpooch]

What is going on here? Has anyone really looked at that boat? It is not a creek boat. To say it is the Jefe of 2006 is just really mind boggling. Check the insides of the boat out. It has play boat insides. I will fold up like a napkin in a bad pin. If you want to compare this boat to another try the mamba or the hero. If this year is as good as we all hope it will be you do not want to be in a river runner to run the gnar. Just my two sense but I do not want to die

Nothing against pyranha. In fact as soon as I have the cash I am getting the new 4twenty.

[gh]

People been running creeks in H3's for years. I dont see the problem.

[Caspian]

The comments about the Burn vis-a-vis the Jefe were not about the type of boat, but about the way they are expected to sell. Completely agreed that the Burn ought to have a rotomolded seat - any margin of safety has the potential to be helpful. However, as has been said, folks run class V in the H3 all the time and the H2Zone before that. The Diesel originally shipped with an injection-molded seat, an WS still had pics of folks in the gnar in the ads.

It's an individual choice. I don't run V+ so it's not as much of an issue to me. Yes, my objective risk would be greater, but I also know my paddling style, what I can do and what I am better off walking. I would feel no less comfortable in a boat with an IM seat than a RM seat for most of the runs I do. There might be some that I'd prefer a RM seat on for the increased safety margin, but frankly I don't paddle that close to the edge of my skills. And yeah, shit can happen (Pablo Perez, R.I.P.), but the logic remains the same.

Back in the 90s Riot did extensive testing on how boats hold up in pin situations. What they learned (according to Corran) was that every type of boat folded and that the real problem in getting out was the fact that the center pillar trapped the legs once the boat was partially crushed. Because of that, Corran designed his creekers without a bow pillar. So, while that does not prove anthing one way or the other, it would seem to indicate that under the pressure of moving water able to wrap a boat, not much makes a difference, so the priority should be ease of exit. Again, it all comes down to personal risk level.

[gh]

Rasta, if you are talking more about the climate of boating changing and the huge amount of posts from people with something to gain then I agree.
I am not sure what to trust any more about people recommending boats. People I trust paddle the H3 in hard water so I will just demo and decide on my own.

[kurfothich]

to my knowage the burns seat is rotomodled. And i do have a bias towards Pryanha, but not just bc they help me out sometimes but bc there not some dumb corporate kayak company! i mean there are 9 people working for them in the whole country, when u call them u get a real live person.

[kurfothich]

i just got it confirmed...the burn is a rotomodled seat...it is the same seat that is in the m:3.