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Old 04-09-2010   #31
slavetotheflyrod's Avatar
Littleton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 98
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Originally Posted by Marco View Post
I have read all of the articles, and am very informed about this debate. I don't dismiss the idea of this issue eventually being resolved in the courts, but I just want to ensure that everyone is aware that there is great potential to do more damage to our cause if a case goes to court which is not favorable to river users.

CROA, CW and AW and have been working hard to get HB1188 passed, and it isn't dead yet. A legislative solution may yet be in the works. The ballot initiatives are another route.

All I'm asking is that we leave all of the options on the table- a big FU to Shaw and other landowners on the Taylor right now would play right into their hands.
You do understand that even if 1188 passes, we still go to court, only it's now the State AG defending the bill, and we'll have little or no controll over that defense. Given the current twit sitting in the AG's chair I'm not too keen on that notion. Why not just cut the middle man out? If you're worried about this going the other way in the courts you need to do some research, in the last 20 years or so there hasn't been a single case where a court has upheld the privitization of a river anywhere in the U.S. (that I'm aware of)

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Old 04-09-2010   #32
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1965
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Is that the same HB 1188 that ingored to rights of the PUBLIC to access it's rivers in favor of commercial rafters? Just one more example of the legislative approach following the money - this time it's the commercial rafter's and the private boater still gets screwed.

Still didn't answer my question - what are YOU proposing?

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Old 04-09-2010   #33
Join Date: Apr 2004
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jgrebe, I guess you haven't been following the bill. It started by only including the commercial rafters but has since been amended to include all boaters.
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Old 04-09-2010   #34
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1965
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Posts: 175
I could be wrong - I was rafting the GC for most of March, but my understanding is that only one version of the bill (house version?) was so ammended. The Senate version has not. Feel free to correct me on this. Since no version has been passed by both houses it's premature to say that the bill includes private boaters - anything could stiil happen. The point I was making is that the bill, as introduced, was designed to protect monied interests not the general public. I think it's a moot point though because I'll wager a tenner no bill makes it to the govenor and even if it does this thing is not settled. This will take a constitutional ammendment (trumps the HB1188 even if it's passed)to settle and probably court cases afterward to determine the constitutionality of the ammendment. We are in for a long fight
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Old 04-09-2010   #35
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Right near the beach...BOYEEEEE, Brahbrobrahdo
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Posts: 442
Jgrebe - I, for one, appreciate your passion. And, I think you could be a great help to the overall cause. BUT, you really should read a lot more about this bill and how it was amended.

Like I said before...if you really want to stir things up start harassing your House Rep's and State Senators. Get your friends calls, emails...and don't let up. Write letters to your local and regional newspapers urging them to put a focus on the issue...people need to be informed STATEWIDE. The more people that start talking about it...the more others will follow in suit. Everyone likes to be informed of what is the current hot legal they can impress their friends that don't lets make this the hottest topic in years!! If your on social networks such as facebook...keep posting links to articles, tell your friends to do the same. There is no such thing as too much involvement in an issue this important!!

If you feel you must make a PHYSICAL effort. Organize a protest or demonstration at the State House.

We need to be one step ahead of the opposition...thinking CLEARLY of how are moves will be portrayed. We need to walk softly...while carrying a big stick!!

"Never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has."
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Old 04-09-2010   #36
Carbondale, Colorado
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I have read everything I can find. Lots of info but not much clarity. The ammended 3rd reading in the Senate as posted on the Colorado General Assembly website Colorado General Assembly still refers to guides not the general public. Like I said correct me if I am wrong but cite your sources so I can educate myself further. The important thing is that the current version calls for a "study' by the CWC - which means they're punting. So still think it's a moot point.
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Old 04-09-2010   #37
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 160
Yes but guide is defined in (II) as basically anyone:
-3- 1188
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Old 04-09-2010   #38
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
down for a mass float. When ? I think it is an awesome idea.
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Old 04-09-2010   #39
Kingston, New York
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by brendodendo View Post
He said that they were printing a retraction in the paper tomorrow. probably in the arts and entertainment section ( I kid).
On the positive side, the online version has a notice right at the top, linking to the "correction" that is at the bottom of the page. In an outstanding piece of journalism, the correction says:

"Computer engineer Chris Sgaraglino was knocked into a river by a raft at a Colorado resort in 2007. In some editions this article incorrectly said that Mr. Sgaraglino had been knocked into the river last summer."
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Old 04-10-2010   #40
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 39
I think if substantial difference is to be made in state law, we're going to need the fishermen on our side. Look at a state like Montana that has very generous river access laws- they benefit both fishermen and boaters and the laws were enacted with the strong support of the fishing community (Stream Access Law). There are a lot more fishermen than boaters in this state and if we can get them on our side in fight for public access to the state's waters we'll have a chance of doing something a lot bigger than hb 1188. Imagine how many fishermen there are in this state who don't have the money to fish private water, and think about how much they would do to support a bill that gives this kind of access: "The public may use rivers and streams for recreation up to the ordinary high-water mark, without regard of the ownership of the land underlying the waters. It gives the right to access streams within the road right-of-way, where bridges cross." Imagine how great that law would be for the boating community. That's what they have in Montana.

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