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Old 04-18-2012   #11
mrkyak's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 311
On a grand trip I Had a nrs wing fail in heavy winds, the poles bent.
Check into getting a personal mister to help deal with the heat.

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Old 04-18-2012   #12
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,120
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
I have been on a couple trips with the Kelty tarps and never found them as functional. They leaked every time, massively (two different ones each trip) and they just never seemed to as taut due to design
I used a Kelty Noah tarp for several years and had the same issues with lack of a taut pitch. I believe it's because of the way the tarp is designed. The catenary cut of the tarp lends itself better to a diamond pitch. I did find the Kelty to be well made, lightweight, well priced, and had no issues with leakage in the rain.

I wanted a smaller tarp for trips with a smaller number of people, and one that didn't weigh a ton. I now use a silnylon 12 X 15 tarp that I'm very happy with. It weighs under 2 pounds, packs small, and gets the job done. The MSR uses silnylon, and from the specs it looks to be lighter in weight than the NRS tarp. I think you will be happy with it.

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Old 04-18-2012   #13
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Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 523
I have the Moss (now MSR) Outfitter Wing and have used it frequently for 10+ years. The factory poles did bend in high wind, so I tied 2" steel rings on the peak-ends to put oar handles through and thereafter only use oars. Worked perfect, and I think the NRS is already set up for that. The oars actually make it more comfortable by lifting up about 8-10" higher for headroom. I also have an NRS wing but have never put it up yet. All the comments about stakes are also dead on - - the factory supplied stakes are almost never beefy enough. I use 12" military aluminum stakes. Put a piece of hoopy or cord and a mini-carabiner on each sake and keep them all together and set up is easy. The guylines just loop through the mini-biner and are ready to be pulled taught with the cord-tensioners. By all means if the unit comes with plastic cord tensioners I'd replace them. The plastic ones slip. The metal (aluminum) cord tensioners are best.

I don't think you can go wrong with the NRS wing. The ZING, by MSR, is a replacement for the old Outfitter and is made with lighter/thinner fabric. OK, less weight, but I've heard they flap in the wind some. The old, thicker nylon Outfitter is pretty solid. So, even if the NRS is a bit heavier I'd go with it.

Have also used the Kelty Noah. Works OK but not as versatile, durable or steady in high winds as the wing-type units. But can't beat it for the money. Just depends how often and how hard you intend to use it. I do lots and lots of off-season trips all over the west so having good kitchen shelter is a must for me.

Good luck
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Old 04-18-2012   #14
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,927
Thanks everyone. I will post my thoughts about the MSR Zing when I get the chance.

Per the difference between the MSR and NRS....its odd they weigh so much different because according to the websites they are made from the exact same material and denier. MSR just specifies the use of a certain waterproofing technique. I assume it may be the type/use of seam tape and the additional weight of cords and poles that is causing the difference.

I was really torn between the two and was bummed I didn't live closer to a real outfitter to compare the difference (SW Utah is a bit desperate for such equipment). Ultimately it boiled down to the fact that I have 10"x10' with almost the exact same design as the MSR and love it (its a different brand). I have found it to be the best for setting up wind and rain proof designs (in the Grand in Jan and Deso in summer).

I also already own several of the beefier MSR poles for the tarp so they should help. Not to mention the quiver of oars we obviously have on every trip.

Hope gear hunting season goes well for all.

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Old 04-19-2012   #15's Avatar
lafayette, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1961
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by malloypc View Post
Look into the Kelty Noah's tarps - much cheaper and just as functional.
I second that, love mine.
Kelty also makes aluminum super strong poles that are adjustble from 8' to 10' and break down short or you can just use oars. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012   #16
Beaverton, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 569
Option #3, since you are in the $400 range:

Outfitter Wing Tarp | River Hardware

These guys are small, local to Hood River, rafters and make bomber goods.
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Old 04-19-2012   #17
malloypc's Avatar
Albany, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 256
Originally Posted by View Post
I second that, love mine.
Kelty also makes aluminum super strong poles that are adjustble from 8' to 10' and break down short or you can just use oars.
I've been happy with my Noah 16 for a couple years now.
Catenary cut so stays balanced in the wind, I just use oars at the corners and weight down the mid-points.
Held up amazingly well during a fierce thunderstorm cell in Hells Canyon.
It did leak at the end of the first season when used for three straight days of rain on the Rogue.
Solved that by running through the washer with Wash-in waterproofing for clothing | TX.Direct Wash-In
Hard to beat for less than $100 (much less when on sale).
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Old 04-19-2012   #18
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,927
Just got the MSR Zing in the mail.

Sounds like they listened to some of the feedback and taped every seam now.

Definitely a lighter material than I was expecting but is supposedly the exact same nylon as the NRS. Not sure where the NRS River Wing gains the extra 4 lbs? Poles and stakes?

Only downside I see is that the MSR Zing doesn't come with adjustable poles. Luckily I have 2 of the beefy Kelty ones if need be. That said, we rarely ever lower the height of the center poles below 6-7 feet and I have bought it for reasons that would negate needing to go too much higher.

Will definitely need to be more careful around fires than with the beefier tarps made from pack cloth (Duck series). Just can't let it spark too much.

Thanks for all the input. Look forward to lazing under the new equipment.

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Old 04-20-2012   #19
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Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 961
I have the MSR Outfitter. I always use oars on the point and middle of the back, then use the poles that comes with it on the sides in different combinations depending on what's needed. The stakes that came with it will not hold up in a wind, especially in sand. I carry snow pickets with a caribiner for stakes.
MSR Coyote Snow Picket from
Karma is like this: If we set causes in motion the effects come back to us.
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Old 04-20-2012   #20
Northern Colorado, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 115
Tarp and a wing

If you're on the river when a good storm rolls in I've found that it's nice to have two tarps- one for the kitchen- a coated nylon 12X12' tarp, and one for the people hang-out area-some kind of wing.

I've used moss parawings (msr now)- very good quality and good in the wind, and I own a kelty noah tarp- bought it cause it was more affordable. If you've got the cash, I'd get an msr-they set up a bit more taunt- and then get on campmor's website and order up a 12X12' tarp.

Kinda goes without saying but, with your tarps, also carry some extra hoopie or 5mil cord to make deadman anchors with in the sand using your good 'ol army surplus trench shovel. Know your knots: taunt-line hitch, bowline, square knot...

Tarpology is fun.

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