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Old 01-23-2004   #21
ski/kayak bum
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 460
and leon can't do it all

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Old 01-23-2004   #22
Po' Student
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 24
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It strange that such an uprightous, bible thumping family would have the roudiest commercials that seem to encourage very crude and inane behaviour.[/quote]

It's not that strange. No matter leftwing or rightwing, morals tend to go for a big ride in the swirling toilet when money is at stake. If Coors thought they could make more money by showing nothing but the ass of a camel, you'd be greated by 60 ft bill boards of camel ass.

I was working on a flat tax proposal and I accidentally proved there's no god.
-Homer Simpson

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Old 01-23-2004   #23
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
Coors Legacy

I too drink coors occasionally and live and surf in the shadow of the brewery. Indeed if I needed a job I would likely have no choice but to go and knock on their door. I've been reading that book Citizen Coors which points out that while Coors has been around well over a hundred years, they never even advertized until just recently because they didn't need to. Also, they give alot of money away anonymously to charity. THey own the water and the land and they have the cash to do something like that ( a year round surf park). Clearly Coors has a bad rap with alot of Coloradans , in part for what they do and have done to clear Creek. THis would be a perfect opp. to "Clear" their name and they;d get first crack at sponsoring the WHitewater festivals ( Summer Olympics ?)it would attract. No joke. Lets put fire under their ass.
If you don't think it's worth it I suggest you have a look at the Penrith Whitewater park, it's a kick in the pants. Big drops huge waves, warm water. North American Pros and Boat designers can be found there in the Winter (now) honing their skills. While it sounds like chumpville , a fake river, think of it as a safe place for people to learn the skills they will need on real rivers. Kids for example would have a much easier time talking their mothers into letting them go whitewater kayaking if it were in a controlled environment. Thecost of the thing , say 5 million, (Penrithcosted 3.5)would be adrop in the bucket compared to the benefit the public would reap over time. Ta for Now.
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Old 01-23-2004   #24
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 388
I'm surprised Kozmo is serious about a pump driven WW park. Yea, it would be way cool. But, the building and operating costs are enourmous. Do you know how much energy is takes to pump 300 cfs up 100 feet? Dream on if you think someone will build it and operate it for us.

It's a fun topic, but be realistic.

(Does anyone know operating costs for the Penrith Whitewater park? )
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Old 01-26-2004   #25
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
The folks at penrith told me it was around a $150 us an hour to run the thing, I paid $25 to surf there in january03 (so did Billy Harris ) . Rafters are the money train though, paying 50 bucks a head times to have a thrillwith their co workers or whatever. If you have any doubt about the quality of the surf , Check out Hoya's posts of the pre worlds. Lastly , I asked the folks at Penrith if it was going to survive andf they said that it most definitely was and this is two hours out of Sydney in a tiny little industrial hick town where nobody fucking kayaks ! If I had the land and the money and the H20 rights , I would do it tomorrow. BTW the UNion shutes would be another primo spot, anyone out there on the Englewood City council?
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Old 01-26-2004   #26
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Two other things , I suspect the water is already being pumped to get to Stanley lake,and you don't need a hundred feet of gradient , Penrith only uses about 40 and it has a magic carpet that takes you back to the top.
Add to this some water quality benefit, lets say dissolved oxygen augmentation (Platte) , then you have even more of a reason to make it happen. As far as Liability goes, surely it would be safer than surfing with neverever/ no rollers @confluence at 10k cfs ??
One last crazy thing. Grand county as you may know is almost entirely dewatered due to the Big THompson and Denver Water Diversions. This water , your drinking water if you live on the front range is pumped with giant pumps to the tune of hundreds of cfs per day , to wherever they need it .For example Willow creek res. water is pumped into Grand lake,lots of it . So , since west slopers are robbed of their boating, water AND the water is being pumped, AND you are paying for it anyway , why in the hell don't they put a freeking surf wave in ? If you don't believe me go and stand on the grate and look at the lovely water being pumped all day from hityher and thither. If I were a Grand count cite zen I would sue and makethis happen Cuz ther ain't no boatin in Grand county or Summit and our Lawns are the reason. Anyone know a good lawyer?
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Old 01-26-2004   #27
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Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I 'm assuming that we are talking about a fully man made structure with a hottub in the middle like ones posted here in the past, not modifications to clear creek. Couldn't the park be run like a ski resort? I would definitly pay ~$70 a day or $500 for a season pass to go to a park like that than go to Vail. If the park was under lights and was run year round with competitions, a bar and resturaunts similar to a ski resort it would seem to be profitable.

I forgot how this post started but is this really beeing considered or are we just dreaming in our offices. I'm dreaming of surfing 85 degree water in January.
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Old 01-26-2004   #28
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
Well first off, let me say again , I am serious. People are constantly pointing out to me what a small market surf kayaking is and all that. Well I say bullocks , I love to kayak, I wish I could do it year round. Ask the city of GOlden what their return on a million dollars of stream "restoration" was. I bet it was it the tens of millions in the first year.
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I do believe that it would fly or least break even.
Hot tubs, underwater observation decks, boat drinks, sure , if that gets you on board , but I want to go surf.....
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Old 01-28-2004   #29
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 388
If operating costs of a recirculating kayak park is only $150 an hour, I'm warming up to the idea. I like the idea of coupling it with a cafe and other amenities, sort of like a ski area base area. If you do it right, the kayak park can be a signature attraction of a cool spot.

I checked out the Penrith web site at and it has only 18 feet of vertical drop over 8 drops. After acounting for general gradient, that's less than 2 feet per wave. It may be fine for a kayak slalom course, but I doubt it is great for surfing. They claim only one main surf wave. It does pump 500 cfs, which is healthy.

Penrith doesn't seem as fun as Golden. It's a cool concept, but it seems to be built more on the old fashion slalom concept, not play boating.

If you can build a park with a bunch of good surf spots, say 7 waves, you should be able to entertain at least 20 people at once at $20 per hour per person. You'll probably want 30-40 feet of vertical.

Perhaps the place to do this is at the current Golden WW park--if you can pump an extra 200 cfs for the length of the course, charge people $10 an hour for the months other than runoff, it may work.

A bar overlooking to the library hole, with outside seating would be a nice addition too.

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