Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-11-2010   #11
Colorado Springs Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by SNCrafter View Post
so i'm a climber but my passion lives with the water...

in Yosemite climbers are climbing the classic routes in record time, some in less that three hours. there is all sorts of coverage in the magazines when a record is broken.

I'm starting to hear rumors of people doing this same kind of thing on some of the longer classic rivers.

some guy named Bo ran westwater through cataract in 24hr in a kayak at 62,000

another guy rowed cataract in 20hr at 32,000

I've heard of people running 100 miles of the Deschutes in a day with kayaks.

i'm wondering if this is starting to go the way of speed climbing?
and if so how many people are out there doing this?
I think the answer is largely "no" aside of a few exceptions. A number of factors play into the lack of speed emphasis. Part of it is due to water levels/speed being so variable. On any given day the Nose of El Cap is ~2900' but Cataract is not the same endeavor at 15K that it is at 60K. Hans Florene et al never get the benefit of the Nose being 2200’ one day and 2900’ the next. High water “shortens” the distance and competition is only worth doing if everyone is running the same distance.

IMO whitewater kayaking is substantially more dangerous than rockclimbing (though not mountaineering). While McNeely and others have shown that you can take really long falls on some of these steep speed ascents and keep going you have less of a safety net in kayaking. Falling is equal to swimming and few are willing to combine a swim with the fatigue of paddling all out on hard water.

Also there’s an inherent difference in the amount suffering required to do long runs. Big walls entail some substantial pain and suffering regardless of how you climb them. They take you to wild places but hauling a pig has all of the fun of hanging drywall. The longer you take the more back breaking labor you have to do. Going light and fast eliminates the pig factor. But there’s little to no suffering involved in multi-day wilderness river runs. It’s wilderness car camping that begs for you to take your time. When you’ve waited possibly years for a permit or the right flow/vacation time who wants to blow through in a day?

Mike Hartley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2010   #12
milo's Avatar
crested butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 698
Send a message via Yahoo to milo
.......speed runs......

.....sometimes it's the way to go......the BLACK CANYON double is just a chance to see who will fetal up and or shit their hurts just going in once in a week...twice in a weekend like the boulder heavies have been known to do is tuff too.....i pulled 3 runs in 5 days once a long time ago, 2 were solo....fine week of weight loss, hair loss and marble never know when you're gonna have to make fast time....might as well see what you got.....milozadik 420 cb

milo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010   #13
Ashville, North Carolina
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
while taking it slow and enjoying the the scenery ect. is great, sometimes it is a great rush to just bomb through sections fast. While I know thats a bit different to marathon efforts i can see the atraction.
LeagueOfOrdinaryGentelmen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010   #14
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
Originally Posted by Phil U. View Post
Have you got another run in you this season?
Sure, but probably not the Numbers. It's a little cold for that, and even with this mild weather I'm sure there is plenty of ice in there. I would be up for something a little more tame...Possibly the Miracle Mile, or I was thinking of doing a mellow trip in the Bighorn, possibly Rincon. Heading back up to Independence for BC today, but work is slowing way down. Give me a shout if you get any time during the week.
GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences.
lmyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010   #15
Colorado Springs Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
There's a significant difference, if I understand SNCrafter correctly, between what happens in Yosemite and doing laps on Big South and/or the Black. There are semi-official rules for speed climbing in Yosemite that determine when the clock starts and stops. Times are recorded down to the second. Unless everyone is racing on the same day at the same flow, as in downriver racing, that just doesn't make sense to do on a river. Kayakers may keep track of who did "such and such" run in a day or 5 laps on the N. Fork but I don't think we'll see the intense competition for speed ascents in boating like there is on big walls. There certainly is a parallel between kayaking and mountaineering though.
Mike Hartley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010   #16
tj@cu's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 983
I would think that conditions are not always the same for climbers either probably not as much of a consideration as water levels, but I would say temp, wind, time of year (crowdedness of the route) and probably a lot more factors contribute to a successful speed climb.
And I do time how long it takes most of the times I'm trying to go fast but mostly just for a personal reference and to see if I can beat that time but not to post on MB to prove how much better than sean lee I am.
tj@cu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2010   #17
incline village, Nevada
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Mike Hartley View Post
There are semi-official rules for speed climbing in Yosemite that determine when the clock starts and stops. Times are recorded down to the second. Unless everyone is racing on the same day at the same flow, as in downriver racing, that just doesn't make sense to do on a river.
if people were going to start keeping track of times what would some of the rules be? wouldn't picking the launch date and navigating the permit world be part of the challenge? would it vary river to river?
SNCrafter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2010   #18
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
This is kayaking, there are no rules.

There are some physical and likely debatable facts, such as; high water is faster than low water, not hitting rocks is faster than hitting rocks, rapids and rivers change, and (with a few exceptions) longer kayaks are faster than shorter kayaks. These variables alone make record tracking very questionable in kayaking.

If you want rules, and more importantly want to go fast and know who's the fastest then go check out or participate in a race. Most races have different rules and different lengths that are based on the type of river or creek that the race is being held on. Most are well run and relatively safe (assuming the participants make good judgement calls to race or not). All of them are humbling because you realize how fast and good all those paddlers that you have heard about really are. They are fun to paddle with.

Well said TJ and Mike. Andy Corra is sicker than Sean Lee... but just barely.
Kyle McCutchen
Cutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2010   #19
Atlantis, .
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 38
Let's face it... The days of kayak overnighting are over. Any run you can't do in a day isn't worth doing (or you're just a wuss). What's the point of kayaking anyway if you can't gloat about it in the bar every night?
The_Jackal_Of_Gnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2010   #20
st2eelpot's Avatar
Professional Transient, See above.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 310
I've run Cataract canyon in one straight shot twice in a Rocker creek boat:

24 hrs 8 min at 7000cfs (had to sleep a couple of hrs on a sand bar due to exhaustion).
16 hrs exactly at 50,000cfs

Both times I put in at Potash and took out at Dirty Devil on the right.

Bo ran it, I believe at 50,000 in a downriver boat and not at 64,000. We launched on the same day, though obviously from different points. We both wanted the peak flow that season, and both timed it wrong. There was a sudden cold snap as it was going up.

I'm working in a warehouse packing boxes right now. One of the kayakers who used to be one of the Young Guns works there. Said his buddy just ran the Grand Canyon of the Stikine in 24 hrs.


st2eelpot is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Runs? MGD83 Kayaking | Trip Planner 0 06-26-2010 11:45 AM
Lost Kayak, or My Boat Snuck Off the Reck at High Speed preston Lost & Found 2 08-12-2009 01:42 PM
Obama's High-Speed Rail Badazws6 The Eddy 30 04-17-2009 02:37 PM
Miōn Speed Rolling Contest At OR Show in Salt Lake Verde PR Whitewater Kayaking 0 07-26-2007 02:30 PM
high speed lifts rhm Winter Buzz 21 10-10-2006 11:19 AM

» Classified Ads
Pyranha Burn 3 Medium

posted by Rendezvous River Sports


Bone Kayak Pendant

posted by circuitmonkey

Bone kayak pendant. Made in nepal. I have a bunch of...

Wavesport Diesel 60

posted by pattimiller747

Cool colors - purples, black and greys Lightly used two...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:25 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.