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Old 09-18-2005   #31
sundown's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by rasdoggy
Truth be told If I were to put nose plugs on you and duct tape over your mouth most people can go to about 3 min before blackout happens.

Its disturbing that you know that doggy.

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Old 09-18-2005   #32
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3
wow, you people are alot nicer than the people on (California) I made a similar post two years ago and 50% of the response was encouraging and the other 50% was get out of the water kook etc etc.
anyhow my first 2 boats had real tight cockpits,,to the point where I couldnt get my legs out easily if I had to swim, definately added to the "fear factor", My Perception Blaze and Liquid logic boats are easy to get out of and that added alot to my confidence level,,that and realizing the river is gonna push you where it wants to so your not always gonna be in the perfect posistion to roll. You'll get it. It took me awhile and now I actually enjoy practiceing my roll (plus it entertains the tourist at the Reno park)

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Old 09-18-2005   #33
Driggs, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Feel like I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but that seems like the going thing.

Bombproof: No secrets, lots of practice! If you're practicing in a pool have one of your friends flip you over when you least expect it, shake your boat, and hold you upside-down for two or three roll attempts before they let you succeed... "Whitewater-simulation". If you're lucky enough to still have a river to boat, preferably with a play wave, that's even better.

Back-deck: Don't listen to the old-timers (no offence) it's not safe, don't do it. C-to-c isn't any less powerful anyway. (for anyone who wants to contest this: I can roll a Topo-Duo and a Torrent, both coming up on the front deck) For that matter, fuck buying an "easy-to-roll" boat, borrow one that's hard as hell to roll and practice in that...if you're up to the challenge it will make your normal boat seem like cake.

Lung capacity: The longer you feel comfortable holding your breath, the more roll attempts you can make. Practice holding your breath. The more you relax, the slower your heart beats, the longer before your lungs scream. Counter-intuitive when you're upside down in a river, but worth the effort. I know I can hold my breath for 2min if I relax, vs. 15 to 30 seconds if I'm freaking out. Practice, meditate, or visualized being worked in a monster hole while you're holding your breath in a hot-tub...whatever your style. If you're already doing AT LEAST 5 attempts before you pull, this doesn't really apply.

Good luck, glad there are ladies out there learning to boat!
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Old 09-19-2005   #34
ZLSeth's Avatar
Dillon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 132
My first season boating, I started towards the end of the season, so I only went about three times. The following winter, I went to the pool almost every week with a buddy who was learning to roll, also.

We did some practice things that really helped: (1) flip over WITHOUT setting up first. You're never set up when you flip on the river. (2) We would see who could see who could stay upside-down longer and still roll up. (3) Flip over on both sides, sometimes roll with the momentum, sometimes not. (4) flip with your paddle in one hand and re-grip it under water (5) See how many consecutive rolls you can do (I think this helped me a lot to get and instinctive feeling).

Practice, practice, practice.

Playboat, playboat, playboat.

And remember, everybody misses a roll sometimes. I feel that I have a bomber roll , yet I had a 5-try in slow moving water a couple of weeks ago.
"Believe me, my young friend, (said the water rat somlemnly), there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing...." -The Wind in the Willows
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Old 09-19-2005   #35
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
Thank you all so much for taking time to offer pointers!!!

I've been out-of-town a couple of days and missed out on this thread until this morning! I did come up on a nasty pin (open boat on a notorious undercut here) this weekend though, so if anything, there's additional incentive to step up my rolling. Also had the pleasure of having my ass handed to me in a nice, sticky hole with about 38 degree water, and subsequently taking a long swim in it yesterday (not a bad/ dangerous swim, just a frickin' COLD one...), to boot.... If this isn't the river gods trying to send me a message to stay in my boat once and for all, I don't know what is!

You guys certainly gave me alot to consider and a few tweaks to try in the pool this week and on the river next weekend. I've got my fingers crossed from here, 'cause this swimming sh!t is becoming less and less enticing the colder this water gets!

The "maybe-the-boat-has-something-to-do-with-this-?" posters - Y'all are too kind: I'm paddling a Jackson Fun, so now you really can be like, "okay, it isn't the boat, it's you, you idiot!"

The lady boaters - Thank you guys especially for your feedback: Lauren, you totally give me hope-- if you can stick it out several years without a combat roll, the least I can do is stop sulking 'cause I've been swimming out of crap rolls for a couple of months! I'm glad you gals are out there myself.... now, if only we could get a few of you over here on this side of the divide....

The lung capacity debaters - Law of averages suggests, under normal conditions (i.e. someone walks up to you in the street, says "go," and you start holding your breath from there), men can hold their breath around 55-60 secs, women 45-50 sec. Physiologically, humans technically *are* capable of holding up to 2 min (if absolutely necessary), but factor in duress, adrenaline, frantic motion (eats up circulating O2 in your bloodstream), etc., and you're looking at a realistic average dropping back down below even "average" levels. They teach you this crap in lifeguarding classes, which is the only reason I have any clue about it, BTW. hmmm.... why is it I can't remember practical things when I need to, but this trivial and essentially useless crap always does seem to stick with me??

BSOE - You know I was just kiddin' around about the cute thing! I'm not too bad about leaving a yard sale in my wake, but you can still be my hero if/ when I inevitably do... LOL

FLOW - a post-counter?? Am I just dense, or is there something I'm missing?
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Old 09-19-2005   #36
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 480

You hold your BREATH not BREATHE.

You BREATHE in some air/oxygen. You can't BREATH in some air.

Oh God, I'm sorry. Was I ranting? I should get back to work.
Like it or not, all of us are the result of a sexual act.
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Old 09-19-2005   #37
Metro Area, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 214
newby..the only real way is to just keep'll get it
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Old 09-20-2005   #38
LaPorte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 33
bombproof rolls

Hi newby0616,

In addition to all the fine words of wisdom above, I can't help plugging my "dry land" rolling approach. Help yourself to or go to "Links" above, then "Instructional", its the first entry - you can also do a sweep roll this way, but the boat rotates a bit (so allow enough space).

I found that developing muscle memory strengthened my roll. It got my blade angle right, emphasised the need for a powerful wind up (=set up) preceding the hip snap and helped me keep my head down.

When you know you can roll (i.e. you've done it a bunch of times), if it doesn't work, you know you are doing something wrong - grab a good breath, set up again, and do it the way you know you can. Most of the failed rolls I see are sabotaged by lifting the head too soon.

Remember, even with the most expert paddler, if they are still in their boat, they are just between swims!
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Old 09-21-2005   #39
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
Hey Mandy,
Thanks for the additional resources! Yeah, the thing that sucks most about missed rolls is I'll get myself *just* flipped around enough to carp the top of the water a couple of times (um, I guess that means I'm bringing my head up too soon on those attempts?? ). It's like, hey, you're almost there, you can feel it and see it, then your boat hits the next crest, or plops right back down on top of you again.... sucks!!

I think another thing is, whereas some paddlers aren't too comfortable hanging out upside down, I'm a little too much so. I've got pretty good lung capacity and I'm comfortable in the water, so it may be easier for me to get distracted (i.e. I have too much time to think).... there've been times I've flipped (in the pool) and had enough time to just hang out like a damned bobber going, okay, what am I supposed to do now... alright.... keep tucked, paddle to left side of boat, set up, start sweep, hey, that feels really weird, my hips all just kinda braced in and hanging there, how the f**k am I supposed to get them to snap again?? It's not the water that gets to me in moving water, even. It's the feeling of being suspended upside down by my hips, and trying to figure out how the hell I'm supposed to go from that weird, braced pulling sensation (with all my weight hanging there from my hips), to rolling those bastards back under me again. If this is making any sense?

Anyone else have any trouble with missing rolls when they started out because of this???
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Old 09-22-2005   #40
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 51
For sure! I overthought the process for a long time and it kept getting in the way. Once it all came together and I did it, the overthinking was over Relax, clear you mind, and think of only the basic steps. It'll happen!

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