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Old 04-11-2009   #21
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 36
I'm not sure what precipitated this thread about the Saturn Rafts dealer in Boise. I have met Cody and know he believes in the product he is selling, as do I. I, however, am not fond of his advertising and have chosen a different path to that. I will remind everyone, once again, that Saturn Rafts is not the supplier or manufacturer of Saturn Rafts. He is a dealer for Boats To Go who is the distributor for Saturn Rafts. Keep what you think of the product and what you think of the dealer as 2 separate entities please.
We, RM Rafts, LLC (, are the exclusive dealer for Saturn Rafts in CO. We offer the same warranties, free delivery in the Denver area and low cost delivery throughout CO and the US. Our goal is to provide the rafting community with a quality, affordable product along with great customer service. What we won't, and don't, do is tell you that our 14' raft has an MSRP of $3500 (it doesn't), or that is is puncture proof (we all know that raft doesn't exist), or that our price is 70% off retail. I have never seen a Saturn for sale for $3500. We know you guys know your shit and we aren't trying to fool anybody with a bunch of over the top advertising. We believe the Saturn is a high quality raft that is VERY affordable and we offer it at a price below any other raft of similar quality. We will also beat any other price on the same raft. Everyone asks "what's the catch?" There isn't one. Great service, no BS, and the lowest prices are what we offer. We believe our customer is number one. We aren't a full service dealer in the sense we sell parts and repair boats. But, if you have a bad valve I will send you a new one, free. I have enough laying around for that. I have extra PVC on order that I will send a customer if he needs it for a repair. They don't supply a lot with the repair kit so I will keep some in stock. Give us a call anytime and we will give you honest answers to all your questions. If you are considering a used boat, take a look at our NEW boats. Commercial guys run their boats hard and turn them around every few years. Some are great buys and some are not. Buyer beware. Do some good research if you are buying used. I have a friend selling a 1 year old Hyside Outfitter for what was wholesale last year. A great buy if you want a Hyside but it will still set you back $3000+. If that's too rich for your blood but want to get on the river, give us a call. We'll treat you right. If you want a nice used Hyside, I'll give you his number.
RM Rafts will have a booth at FIBARK this year, the largest whitewater festival in CO and probably the whole USA! Come check out our products. We would love to meet, and learn, from all of you highly experienced rafters. Drop in and say hi. Thanks.

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Old 04-11-2009   #22
I'm right 50% of the time
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Kendo... triple posts are cool.

If a kayak builder lied to you in a post, by posing as a satisfied customer, you can not tell me that you would not be pissed off. BOTTOM LINE: SATURNRAFTS (dealer and buzz user name) posted in manner that was deceitful and untrue.

SATURNRAFTS (dealer) should be banned.

RMRAFTS (dealer) should be very pissed off at SATURNRAFTS (dealer) for making him look bad. I think RMRAFTS has been honest and upfront about the quality of Saturn Rafts (brand).

Saturn Rafts (brand) have their place on the river. They are price point boats for the budget conscious consumer. They are like the Geo Metro of the rafting world, while NRS might be the Caddy.

What pisses me off is the FACT that SATURNRAFTS (dealer) poses as a customer to provide feedback in OUR forum. Which leads me to believe that he has employed this same tactic multiple times on our message board and has done the same on other boards. AND has not replied to either thread.

Claimer: Someone that makes a claim that they have been there and done that, can do anything you can do better than you. I hate "claimers"
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Old 04-11-2009   #23
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 36
Thanks for your input. I get it. The point of my post was to disassociate myself from any other dealer as we are totally independent. We know a lot of guys buying boats read this forum to research opinions on boats and boat dealers. I hope guys will judge RM Rafts on our own merits and not on those of any other company. I know you wouldn't want to be judged or prejudiced by something someone else did and hope the readers of the forum will extend us the same courtesy.

As for the Saturn boat itself, I think you hit the nail on the head. In a previous post I a used Lexus(Hyside) and Toyota(Saturn) analogy but same general idea. There are a lot of people who want to be on the river who can't afford the higher end boats. Our goal is to get them on the river so they can enjoy it without breaking the bank and to, hopefully, make them long time raft enthusiasts which would be good for the entire industry. We feel the Saturn rafts fill that market niche better than any other boat on the market.
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Old 04-11-2009   #24
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Portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 114
Rotten or Golden Egg

It will be interesting to see what the impact and the subsequent reactions of this incredible farce will be. Will this prove to be a golden egg for RMrafts, or will it be sucked into the miasma of shady dealings from the association of product?

"Keep your nose clean" goes to a whole new level now doesn't it?
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Old 04-11-2009   #25
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
SATURNRAFTS (dealer) poses as a customer to provide feedback in OUR forum.
That's the issue. Its beyond me how Kendo, if he understands the situation, justifies his defense of this potentially unethical behavior a raft company representative appears to have engaged in.

In case Kendo or anyone else misunderstands what happened: Henry raised the possibility of duplicity after seeing identical photos on other internet forums, posted by boaters claming to be satisfied Saturn owners. I used my moderator's privileges and checked the unique IP address to determine whether any other 'Buzz members were associated with the individual computer "HighCider" (supposedly a satisfied Saturn Raft customer) posted from. The user "SaturnRafts," a dealer, was indicated as posting from "HighCider's" IP address. The results were then made available with the rest of the community and an explanation was requested. So far we haven't heard anything back from either "HighCider" or "SaturnRafts." There's no need to block the users from posting - enough folks know the situation that they'll get called out if anything seems sleazy.

Here's a link to the thread where this happened.

That said, RMrafts doesn't share an IP address with any other users, appears to be on the level, and seems to have been put in a very awkward and difficult situation by a fellow dealer of hit product. I'll also say the Saturn Rafts manufacturer/design team seems to be listening to feedback and improving their product over the years. Saturn fills a market niche for low cost whitewater rafts. I hope all will give RMrafts the benefit of the doubt and consider the boats for what they are with an open mind.


-Andy H.
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 04-11-2009   #26
Preacher of the Profit Paddling Since: 1990
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Give'em hell Kenny. You know what happens to snitches.... they all become bitches.

It's always more fun to settle it face to face.
I love to dance, but who needs the music- It throws me off.
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Old 04-11-2009   #27
Vail, Colorado
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I think Kendo has been drinking and typing.
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Old 04-11-2009   #28
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I completely feel how this maybe an uncomfortable situation for you. At the same time, this was like a cancer that was not going away and would just get bigger and worse. It’s better to get it taken care of now than later. You will come away from this better off in the long run. Overall, the folks on the BUZZ are good reasonable folks and it’s obvious to them that you’re an honest person. The community is going to have your back, correct any misinformed posts, and recommend their family and friends who are on a budget to RM Rafts. You’ve proven who you are!

I’ll point out some reasons (below) why many folks have had a difficult time disassociating Cody/SaturnRafts from actual Saturn. You and other Saturn dealers may want to review these and take appropriate action to protect your investments and time invested within the Saturn brand:

When I go to, I get the impression that I’m actually on the manufactures website and dealing with the actual Saturn company of North America. The name alone gives this impression. When I go to Chevrolet dot com or AIRE dot com, I know that the buck stops there. I'm confident AIRE wouldn't let a dealer use AIRERAFTS dot com to do business! Over all, his URL, logos, email addresses, copyrights, and content have a very strong U.S. Trademark impression and feel of him being the actual Saturn company. It just feels like a manufactures website and not that of a dealer. Unfortunately, when the majority who don’t know otherwise, read “Puncture Proof” or his other over the top statements they just get a bad impression of Saturn. Nowhere on his website is one informed that they’re dealing with the company Boats To Go. Your website feels like a dealer site.

You informed us that he is the distributor. This is no small casual by the way thing! A distributor, more or less, is the governing body for their assigned/contracted area of the world for that brand. Typically a distributor oversees all aspects of the brand within their contracted area. They’re in charge of branding, marketing, warranties, who will and not be dealers, quality control, and have the final say on all matters and issues within their area. Simply they’re there to promote and grow the brand.

I would assume this leaves you in the uncomfortable situation of having Cody’s thumb over you? If not, that means there is no continuity, proper organization, and everything is completely upside down within the North America brand/organization. Either one, needs to be seriously addressed with the actual manufacture.

I would assume Cody’s contract to be a distributor has a clause stating that his contract can be cancelled if his or companies actions are negative to the brand.
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Old 04-11-2009   #29
I'm right 50% of the time
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As a person that I respect on the buzz, and a major person behind Confluence Kayaks, what do you have to gain by having Kenny get in a wad about this. You only have business to loose by getting involved in this debate. As a long term person on the buzz, You should be pissed that people are getting lied to. If you condone these practices, what does it say about your business? Just asking, as I have always thought that your input and advice has been great.
Claimer: Someone that makes a claim that they have been there and done that, can do anything you can do better than you. I hate "claimers"
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Old 04-11-2009   #30
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 36
Riverdoghenry: Thanks for the business lesson!

I will freely admit I am new to running a business. My background for 30 years has been flying airplanes (F-16s in the Air Force, 737s for Southwest) so I have a lot to learn about business. Being in the airline industry for 16 years there is one thing I do know, good customer service is essential. Integrity is paramount.

I will certainly take your advice and see what, if anything, I can do. Boats To Go owns the Saturn Inflatable Boats brand. They pretty much stick to dinghies as their primary product. I think Cody was their first strictly raft dealer so he decided to call himself Saturn Rafts. If I said he was the distributor, I was mistaken. I am sure they didn't see this as a problem at the time but now it is indeed a huge issue for me and any other current or future dealers who want to sell Saturn Rafts.

Thanks again for your support.

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