Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-23-2010   #41
El Flaco's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879
I should not be surprised that Corran was ahead of me on this one....

El Flaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010   #42
silverthorne, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
I would have to say the Bottom Moose, NY Class 5 Lake drop.

miahski2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010   #43
loot87's Avatar
Lyons, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 84
Niagra is a 3.5A???? Seems like likely death whether you nail the line or not.
loot87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010   #44
silverthorne, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
The Mettawee in NY class V pool drop with at least 1/2 mile between drops and the Top 4 drops of North Fork of the Crystal.
miahski2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010   #45
mr. compassionate's Avatar
conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by El Flaco View Post
These are good and obvious answers, along with some of the others. Which is why a few us answered with specific runs in the sense of "relatively speaking" or "all things being equal". We all know that class V has more general inherent risks than class IV, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe if we look at this as a formula, based on the AWA ratings article:
The "Flaco Scale" of the Relative safety of a run = (DM) x (C+R+S)
  • DM = Difficulty of crux moves (class I through V)
  • C =consequences of an missed line (sieve, cave, strainer). Pick a # system, I'll offer 1-3 good-to-bad.
  • R = remoteness of run (accessibility to rescue, 1-3)
  • S = ability to set safety in red zone (1-3)
So the Flaco Scale might range from an absolute low-end value of 1 (roadside Class I riffles) to a high end of 45 (Remote class V with bad consequences & sketch safety). There are other variables - crew, water levels, temps, etc, but I'll exclude them for brevity)

For example - Two class V-ish 20 footers: Adrenaline Falls on Lime & Entrance on Vallecito (Let's assume medium flows). Adrenaline has a super-squirrelly 5' entrance that flips boaters & generally takes folks offline 50% of the time before dropping the 20'. Conversely, Entrance has no corresponding challenging features before the drop's lip and a clear visual of the line. (I know this is debatable, but let's speak relatively for a minute)

The bottom of Adrenaline is a clean pool, easy to set safety at the top and bottom. A swim in the LZ will hurt your pride, but you'll retrieve your boat and gear shortly in the slack pool, and you can hike your ass out of the drainage to LC road if you've dislocated a shoulder or had enough.

A missed line in Entrance can put you and your gear behind the falls, where you could find yourself in deep shit, and your crew has to put themselves in considerable danger to help get you out. And you're in a significantly isolated gorge at that point; likely requiring professional help to get out.

Adrenaline gets a rating of 5 x (1+2+1) = 20
Entrance gets a rating of 5 x (3+3+3) = 45

For shits and giggles, Skull in Westwater @20K gets this rating from me:
3 x (2+3+2) = 21. Yeah - a class III is 'more dangerous' than Adrenaline. But if you miss the III move and get a swimmer with a dislocated shoulder in the Room of Doom, you don't have great safety/recovery options. You have to contend with Shock Rock, and his boat is probably in Moab by the time you get him out. Then he has a 7 mile hike down the Kokipelli. One of the closest calls I've ever seen was a near-flush drowning that started in class III Funnel Falls. Safety (throw ropes on the raft) failed, and getting a swimmer to safety, in heavy class III with no eddies, was pretty desperate. And if we hadn't had raft support, we would have had a 2 day ordeal to get the guy out of the canyon.

Range by class:
Class I = 1 to 3
Class II = 6 to 18
Class III = 9 to 27
Class IV = 12 to 36
Class V = 15 to 45

I'll allow that if a V rapid shakes out to be a 15 on the scale, most folks will call it "IV+"; just because the consequences are relatively light. Realistically speaking, though, a V rapid like Rigor Mortis gives many of us the willies because it's huge & tricky to run correctly; but it's also free of any sieves, you can get a rope to someone quickly, and it's on Hwy 6. That's why guys like Rolf have fired it up with inner tubes. That ain't gonna happen on Entrance at 2.1'.

Now someone can proceed to destroy this rough model, and scream how ridiculous it is because I didn't account for whether the team ate their Wheaties this morning.
Flame away!
The most logical thing I've ever seen you write

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchhill
mr. compassionate is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How hard is rolling a sea kayak? basil Whitewater Kayaking 6 06-19-2006 02:16 PM
Hard boot set-up thomas5jf Winter Buzz 3 02-19-2006 07:36 AM
World's safest whitewater helmet?? WhiteLightning Whitewater Kayaking 42 08-31-2005 10:22 AM
i now know where to go when it rains, hard. howlie Whitewater Kayaking 6 08-05-2005 06:44 PM
Hard to log in, help! foy Support & Feedback 1 04-14-2005 09:15 PM

» Classified Ads
Dagger Mamba Creeker 7.6...

posted by Rendezvous River Sports


Pyranha Burn 3 Large B/G/W

posted by Rendezvous River Sports


Dagger Mamba Creeker 8.1

posted by rjskibum

2014-Dagger Mamba Creeker 8.1 Purchased July 2014 from...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.