Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2010   #11
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 665
Do permits really accomplish all this? People are idiots and inconsiderate, whether they have a permit or not. Unless they are going to actually patrol up and down the river all day long, these kinds of things can still happen. If someone wants Blackrocks, they can get a permit for something else and then poach it. What's anyone to do if there's no enforcement? Same with trash and such. Claim it was already there for that matter.

I like the idea of a fee that would go towards more personnel on the river to actually address the issues, without the permit. Pay a fee when you get there, first come first serve on the camp sites, and somebody WILL be by later in the day to make sure you are in your camp, and nobody else is in your camp.

BoilermakerU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2010   #12
Kooterville, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 49
More government is never the answer. RH is probably cleaner now in terms of trash than it ever has been, and some of what little trash you do see is just river trash that has nothing to do with boating. Complaining about beer drinking boaters on a flat-water canoe section? Come on, you guys sound like a bunch of angry old men sitting in the nursing home, shaking your fist yelling "damn kids and their rock-and-roll." As far as "too many people," try Brown's canyon on a weekend or the Moab daily or Pumphouse. Way more crowded. I think they should open up more camping. It looks like there are 5 designated primitive camping areas on about 25 miles of river, how is that impacting the wildlife? I'm sorry, I just don't see how there is this crisis situation that suddenly requires government intervention in our recreational activity.

emptypockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010   #13
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31
Boilermaker- If I have signed up for Blackrocks and someone has poached it, you better believe they are moving or funding my group's beer and booze for the night. I am fine sharing a site BUT I and my group will be moving their tents into the morning sun or they are gone. I don't play around with "We were her first." I have seen it and I disagree and will not put up with poachers on a 'select your site' section of water.
MustacheTheGauley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010   #14
SimpleMan's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: '05
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 394
"More personnel" is the problem with this whole idea Boilermaker. It's not the regulations that suck, it's the rednecks with the badges that enforce them. Why not check for groovers at the put in and then let us be once on the river? "Impacting wildlife?" Please. Have you seen how big that desert is? Humans have a right to be there too. You're not actually floating Ruby for a "pristine" wildlife experience.
SimpleMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010   #15
Matty's Avatar
Silverthorne, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 213
I guess I feel a bit differently than most on the camp poaching on RH. The sign up is optional, and I always assumed there was a pretty good chance someone would be in the site I signed up for. If it were down in the canyon where the rangers assign them, I could see being upset. However you have to take into account the fact that perhaps the group set out with the best intentions of staying at a particular site, and had to go to plan b when their planned site was unavailable. Kind of hard for me to get upset with someone who essentially is in the same situation I am in.
It is pretty crowded down there, and I sure hope whatever plan they adopt will allow for some sort of system for picking up a RH permit in conjunction with your Westwater permit. I just hate dragging all my crap down there for a single night on the Rio.
Matty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010   #16
Kooterville, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 49
Ruby Horsethief <--BLM plan link

"Section 1.4 - Objectives of the Plan - Reduce conflict between visitors."

The people who complain all the time about campsite poachers is the exact reason this is happening. So congratulations, floating RH will be just as much fun in the future as trying to get a Westwater slot or a Deso/Gray slot. Every weekend will be booked solid all year and you'll have to plan your trip 6 months in advance. Not having a permit will make floating this section of river a federal crime. People will make reservations, then no-show and not bother to cancel. Plus, it will now cost $20. All because some people didn't understand that the campsite sign-up sheet was an informal courtesy to other boaters and the group campsites were in fact, first-come first-serve.
emptypockets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010   #17
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
I haven't read all the comments, so excuse me if this thought is a duplicate. If Ruby Horsethief were regulated so that an impromptu trip was difficult, it would push locals toward the stretch of the Gunnison River between Delta and GJ where there is little or no enforced regulation. Someday the same problems there?
Finding half-buried human waste near the Black Rocks camp sites is enough to make me want to require, and enforce, regulations requiring groovers. Fire pans, too. If we don't pay for law enforcement, it appears a place gets trashed by its users. Sad.
bluepuma3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010   #18
Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
I also agree about the ignorance concerning the campsite sign-up. It is plainly non-binding and intended only to give you an idea of what is going on down river. To think it is something else brought the heat down on us.
Did the guy that bragged that he would demand beer money from a camp-poacher at Blackrocks tattle, or did the people he intimidated?
I've witnessed boaters at Blackrocks who are simply inflexible dicks. They would suck on any river, like they probably suck in the real world. Partly because they don't play well with others and partly because they failed to comprehend the actual rule which is first come, first served.
bluepuma3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010   #19
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,407
wish it were not true but it is

I have had the pleasure of floating RH and Westwater a number of times. Had a great time and each trip was very worth the time and effort to make the float.

I am sad to see the RH area get trashed by a few yahoos who screw it up for the rest of us. But, it happens way too much on any "unregulated" river these days.

I do not like the fact that I have to pay, get lucky on a permit and then drive long distances to get to float any of the western rivers we have.

Having said that, it is a great feeling to know the folks in the peaked hats are there in case of emergency, keeping the area reasonably clean and maintaining some level of order that would not be there if the river was not under some sort of Ranger resource. I will mention Middle Fork of Salmon as one river with heavy use but I have yet to see a trashed out camp site on that run.

So, I can pay the fees and put up with the occassional over eager to show their authority Ranger just to know the river is being taken care of and the yahoo types are reduced to allow us regular folks to enjoy the float.

I am all for less governmental control, but in this case my vote is for the permit system and river rangers on patrol. Too bad but it seems our society is just not able to police itself.
okieboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010   #20
Kooterville, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 49
Apart from the "take no action" option, several of the proposed options contain:
$7 per man, woman, and child per day
$7 per dog per day
28 total private camping permits per night for all weekends May through September
7 total commerical camping permits per weekend night
No camping outside of designated sites (currently you can camp anywhere along the river)
Group size maximum is 25 per permit, dogs count as permit slot
Reservations 6 weeks in advance for weekends ($20 cancellation fee)
Pay in envelope/tube slot at boat ramp on weekdays
Only currently existing commercial businesses will be allowed to operate in RH

Comment form on this proposal is due July 1st and can be emailed.

emptypockets is offline   Reply With Quote

blm, colorado river, ruby horsethief

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ruby horsethief tballgame Whitewater Kayaking 3 06-15-2009 09:40 PM
Ruby/Horsethief Shuttle? stubby Whitewater Kayaking 13 06-01-2009 09:11 PM
Ruby Horsethief this weekend... bobblehead Kayaking | Trip Planner 2 04-21-2009 12:24 PM
Ruby/HorseThief replenish Whitewater Kayaking 3 05-27-2008 03:21 PM
Ruby/Horsethief Shuttle Jack Bombardier Whitewater Kayaking 3 10-05-2006 10:27 AM

» Classified Ads
ShredReady full face...

posted by go-with-the-Flo

Size large/XL. White. Light use, no big hits or scratches....

Wavesport Diesel 60

posted by pattimiller747

Cool colors - purples, black and greys Lightly used two...

Jackson 2014 Rockstar...

posted by Scardenas95

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.