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Old 09-07-2011   #31
phlyingfish's Avatar
Moscow, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 269
Shortbus, was your buddy just throwing wave wheels in a deep wavetrain or was he pogo-ing into rocks in a shallow wavetrain? The former won't break a boat, but the latter will.

"A river is more than an amenity, it is a treasure."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes writing for the majority in New Jersey v. New York
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Old 09-07-2011   #32
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,032
Broken boat sounds like a bummer, but the Jackson playboats seem to be the most popular boat around here and I suspect all over the country and obviously people are wave wheeling 'em and then some without constantly breaking them. Bummer that your buddy had some bad luck, but that's clearly not the norm. Jackson seems to have the best warranty out there as well in case of a dud. Broken boats are frustrating though.

As for 2010 vs. 2007 Star, if it were I'd go for the new technology if the price is similar, but either one will suffice.

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Old 09-07-2011   #33
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 128
Yes, if you do your homework you will see that I am indeed fairly brand loyal, especially to Liquidlogic, However, that said, I am willing to give credit where it is due. I want a Pyranha Speeder. I really like the Mamba. I too would love to get into the Wavesport Project X as the Biscuit has left me wanting. Also, let me be clear that I think the All Star is a well designed boat worthy of praise, but the outfitting is not becomming of a $1,200 boat. Yes Jackson's warranty is excellent, it HAS to be, with the amount of boats that break or they would cease to be in business. My dream is that LL would just make a playboat like the all star but with Bad ass outfitting and LL plastic.

The Jackson brand sees an impressive loyalty of its own, as well it should, the star line seems to dominate. The river runners have a lot stiffer competiton to stand up to, not just from the Liquidlogic lineup. I know a number of people who have broken multiple Jackson playboats. It just seems like something that I wouldn't want to deal with repeatedly. But hey, to each their own.
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Old 09-07-2011   #34
Boise, Idaho
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 505
Nothing but love for Liquid Logic here - as the Remix (and probably the Stomper) is the boat of choice for Idaho rivers - but nothing I've seen or experienced matches what you have to say about Jackson.

Jackson boats dominate the class III's and play parks/spots here... probably 10-1 with all other manufacturers combined. Never seen or heard about a problem. That includes the Super Hero and Villains too.

I understand your complaint about the outfitting... that's a personal choice. I like Jackson outfitting myself.

Interesting discussion.
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Old 09-07-2011   #35
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 128
Yup Jackson play boats definitely out number other play boats in my area too, which again is why the warranty has to be solid, a good thing. As I stated before, I think the Stars are a great design. Perhaps our local river's conditions are more conducive to breaking play boats than other places but I know of 5 people who have broken their star/ all star/ super star, some a couple of times. I could say the same or more for creek boats, but breaking any creek boat is a given and therefore won't dive into that. There was a local dealer who sold jackson who is now out of business and maybe he got a bad batch. All I know is I paddled today with a guy who has my old Vision 56. He is the 4th owner and every one of us has hammered on that boat, including pig nosing the bow and it doesn't even show any oilcanning. Maybe its just good luck. As for my other friend who has broken two recently, his All star has definitely seen some use, however he was in a large, deep wavetrain when it happened. As for the rock star, I believe he landed straight on a rock in what he thought was a deep wavetrain.
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Old 09-07-2011   #36
Glenwood Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 302
Besides myself and shortbus, I know of a few other people who have cracked 2010 Star boats. I'll mention that I've cracked mine before and then the others who have all speak up. It seems like the Jackson reputation keeps people from saying they had a problem, like it must have been their fault somehow. Mine cracked on a nice little class II+ section at medium to high water, twice. So I've never wondered if it was user error.

On having to go through the warranty process: I actually consider it a good thing. In each case for me I had a hairline crack. I was able to report it, get the new boat in the mail and still use my current boat until the new one arrived, which was good as new with duct tape over the crack. I don't use footbags etc so it takes me only minutes to swap my old outfitting into the new hull. Plus, when the 3rd hull on the original purchase came through I sold it as "new without warranty" for a bunch. On top of all that, when you warranty a Jackson hull you get to keep the guts, which I sold and covered the cost of shipping the new hull with, and got to keep the hull itself which makes a sick planter in my yard.

I mainly made the move into the RockStar because I wanted to renew the warranty period. It always seemed a waste to have to destroy a whole boat just because there was a small easily dealt with fracture in the hull, but thats what the warranty dictates.

If and when my RockStar cracks I'll see if I can find this thread. I boat alot (100 days+ annually) and don't go easy on my boats. I've got an average of about 50 days per hull in Jackson kayaks so far. We'll see if the rockstar improves that figure. My LL Jefe Grande has been pitoned inside out, swam, and boofed into raw blast rock and is good to go, which is why despite all my positive comments on the Jackson warranty I'll be going liquid logic for my next creek boat.

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