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Old 06-07-2007   #21
Gnarnia, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 651
When you say that the run should be 'tracked', what do you mean?

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Old 06-07-2007   #22
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Eagle, Idaho
Paddling Since: '78
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by JBL View Post
When you say that the run should be 'tracked', what do you mean?
Full boat of custy's/passengers, not a single paddle stroke from any of them. Use only your guide stick, the current, eddy lines, etc... to navigate the river/rapids. The heavier the boat the harder it becomes. The ribbed floor on most rafts (Aire floors sometimes aren't ribbed for example) is where the word "track" comes from because when placed on an angle to the current the ribs alone will actually move the raft VERY slightly in either direction.

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Old 06-07-2007   #23
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 103
I remember those speedos were good for attracting the young rave boys!
Are you going to be up here showing all of us Poudre guides how to track the whole damn river soon?? I could use the tutoring. Let me know when you'll be around again. Oh yeah how was the Grand?
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Old 06-07-2007   #24
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Eagle, Idaho
Paddling Since: '78
Join Date: Mar 2006
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YEAH RIGHT.....coming from "the legend", grandfather poudreraft. I can't hold a candle to the skillz of the Frek. You know damn well I can't track the WHOLE river (you were embarrassingly present during my biggest carn episode!!)'ll have to ask a few of these other guys that can. Plus, I retired the speedo's so it's definitely out of the question.

The Grand was perfect! I'll let you know when I'm coming up again....
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Old 06-07-2007   #25
Highlands Ranch, CO Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 482
Just curious, not trying to start a flame war or anything,but what makes the poudre so difficult? I keep hearing people state that the poudre is a harder river to raft guide.

I have run the poudre a couples times, but at low water, and I didn't think it was a very difficult river to run. Does it change that much at higher flows to make it that much more challenging?

I think the sections I have run is upper and lower rustic, the put in below the narrows through killer bridges and pine view.

Is it because it has a more consistent gradient so you need to stay on line at all times with more water? Does it get pushier? I don't remember too many large rocks too form huge holes, but it was a few years ago so my memory might not be so good on that.

What rivers would you compare it to?

Some rivers that I have rafted that you might be able to compare, clear creek all sections, big thompson below the class V section, upper yough, alto-alto, SBC, anything on the ark, bailey?

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Old 06-07-2007   #26
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 400
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So when was the photo taken?
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Old 06-07-2007   #27
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 136
that photo was taken on tuesday 6/5/07
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Old 06-07-2007   #28
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 15
p the k, and slow cobi, multiple high-fives. the hot pants were, well, just that, i suppose, if your a highschool girl during church camp.
it is not that the poudre is that difficult to guide it's just dangerous if a customer takes a long swim in the cold water, you never know when you will get them back to your boat, or you might just forget them in cartiac corner, right p.
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Old 06-07-2007   #29
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Killer Bridge is one of those rapids that with a bad crew can be a real bitch. I am a former upper Gauley guide, former Poudre guide, and worked as a commercial guide on several other rivers in other parts of the country. I have never wrapped there, but it has been the location of some of my worst all time commercial lines.

I would love to meet any guide who has commercially run from Upper Mish through BTO without calling a single stroke with a fully loaded boat and without any swimmers or carnage. I have serious doubt's that such a person exists. If they do exist they must be a mack daddy j-stroke lovin guiding machine and I will happily buy them a beer if they share their secrets with me.

In all seriousness a good guide can get away with calling very few strokes, and it is a good training tool to practice using your crew as little as possible - but sometimes a crew that you have trained well, given refreshers to throughout the day, and has preformed fairly well, can still cause a serious snafu. Last season I had a crew that backstroked when I clearly called for forward strokes after they saw another boat dumptruck. We were trying to get around a massive pourover - I guess they though we were going to try for shore - so I turned the boat downstream at the last second and thankfully we didn't flip in the ensuing surf session.

As to why the Poudre has a reputation for being hard to guide - it generally is a bit more technical than the Royal Gorge or Numbers and I think it has more sex rocks (small rocks that tend to screw up your line at inopportune times) at common flows. But I would also say that runs like Slaughterhouse are equally as hard to guide and help to develop some of the same skills. For that fact guiding parkdale at 400 cfs without touching any rocks is just as good for guide skill as just about anything out there - at least on the technical side. At reasonably high flows the Poudre also has a nice mix of technical lines, holes to surf, holes that can and will flip you, tight lines with wraps if you miss and good general variety. IMHO.
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Old 06-07-2007   #30
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
Raftus, there is such a guide that exists. I shall not name names due to this guides humble life, but a guide that used to guide for A-1 and then Rapid transit grew up guiding 18' boats in the Himalayas and then came to the pu*$# Sh%@ we call rafting. I once saw him leap from his own boat grab on to the wall at Groover hold on with one hand and push another boat down with his other hand to keep it from flipping. He then landed back into his own boat which he had pushed into the micro eddy along the wall. This man is able to get down any river without calling a paddle stroke, and fortunately he trained me for two days. In those two days I became the 37th best raft guide to ever guide the Poudre. My career was tragically cut short by a freak speedo hot pant incident and some thirteen yr. old church girls and a extremely jealous church group leader. And he was jealous after the freezing cold trip if you are pickin up what I am putting down.

970-217-21 six six
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