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Old 02-24-2006   #11
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Yea. it sounds cool and it's a great discussion. But, I hope you guys can separate talking and dreams from reality. The chances of getting caught just aren't worth it. You would loose big bucks.

Would it be a felony conviction? Employers ask about that. It effects your credit rating and insurance rates. And if you get convicted with something else again, like doing something stupid when drunk, then they really throw the book at you.

Lots of things with our society isn't perfect. But, it can be worse. Be greatful for what you have. Be a radical with things that have less consequences.

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Old 02-24-2006   #12
El Flaco's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879
This might be total rumor, but I heard you can get a permit from the Havasupai Tribe if you know the right people. I have no other information about what that means for camping, access, or anything else. Might be worth a phone call or two.

I don't agree with poaching the Grand, even despite the preferential treatment the Commercial outfits get. It stands to reason that poaching can only complicate the Private Boater system further. That being said, you take your chances & maybe you come out lucky - it just ain't for me.

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Old 02-24-2006   #13
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
For the risk and/or expense involved, maybe you are better off doing an expedition type run, or some other big water run overseas... I don't think you need permits on the Zambezi.
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Old 02-24-2006   #14
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Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879
Yeah- great idea. How about soloing the Owyhee?
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Old 02-26-2006   #15
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 321
It really wouldn't be worthwhile to poach it. The defining experience of the Grand is taking the posh trip with a group of your friends, taking as many days as you're allowed, and exploring as many of the nooks and cranies of that wonderfull place as you can on your way down. If you poach it, regardless of when you go, you'd have to be on an expedited time schedule and would be constantly scared shitless of being caught. Even in the wintertime, when the canyon is least busy, there are still ranger overflights in the canyon, who definately check out who is on the river. They WILL know as they identify trips by boat numbers and colors that legal permit holders have to register at the putin.

Whitelightning is right. There are literally millions of rivers out there, all over the world, and for the potential money you'd lose getting busted, you might as well explore other stuff.

Besides, if you really are determined enough to get on a private grand trip, or get a permit, you can make it happen. This goes regardless of lotteries vs. waiting lists. I got on the list in 2001 and got my permit for this last december. It was well worth it and I couldn't fathom trying to poach it. It would just suck, even if you were successful.
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Old 02-26-2006   #16
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
Naw...poach that shit. If you get caught you could just shoot your way out of the canyon. I'm sure those dudes aren't very heavily armed. RATTATATAT.
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 02-26-2006   #17
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 321
Probably been tried already! The river rangers were all wearing bullitproof vests when I putin.
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Old 02-26-2006   #18
Caspian's Avatar
Englewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
Re: getting choppered out of the grand canyon

Originally Posted by kayaker
The only free chopper rides out of the big ditch are those where you sustain a life-threatening emergency.
I'm pretty suire even these you have to pay for. Think we got insured against that.

BSOE - lol, you're right, they have AR-15s in their patrol cars.
Join up, suckas.

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Old 02-26-2006   #19
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Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,471
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sustained injury while skiing...many many Percocets. Not thinking well or I'd post a more interesting response, but that will come. For now, is there anyone with any FACTS about the punishment for poaching. Confiscation of gear is expected, felony I kinda doubt. As for poaching not being fun, you must be my mother on a $8000 10 day trip. Again, the pain pills take effect
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Old 02-26-2006   #20
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
I heard that anyone caught poaching the grand goes on a "black list" and is never allowed a legal launch (as part of a private or commercial trip.) This would be worse than the fines.

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