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Old 01-30-2006   #11
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
kid- no hostilities here... just the facts. Oh, Chan's proto type Project was most likely the 3rd set of proto's; they were all very edgy. The final versions are much cleaner and way less grabby. Trust me...I took my fair share of window shades in the proto this summer.

Otter, Good luck with your search for a playboat!

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Old 01-30-2006   #12
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14
Thanks for the info

Otter here- I appreciate everyone's comments-it's interesting the way a simple question can evovle... Anyway, yes, the high water will be here and with a little luck maybe even Big Sur will happen. Aside from the local surf spot where I live, I'll be on the Crystal at peak, Slaughterhouse, the Numbers. I'm not a rowdy playboater-just a boater. I like to surf and spin, maybe try a few new things. Come to think of it, I did really like the Vision 56-pretty responsive on a wave and fast for the length. Any other suggestions would be appreciated-I'm looking for a used boat, as I can't afford a crispy one.

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Old 01-31-2006   #13
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 807
otter- if you weigh under 180, consider a Necky Chronic. Its 6'6" and fast and carvy on a wave (not bouncy). REALLY easy to throw around in flatwater and in a hole. Blunts well. Plus, its really forgiving. Much better river runner than my ZG 54. But it might be hard to find one in CO. Good Luck.

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Old 01-31-2006   #14
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 43
I just got the pyranha 420 and have paddled it once on the river and once in the pool. Its a sweet boat and i highly recomend it! The seven o is also a great boat that will run the river well and play like mad.
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Old 01-31-2006   #15
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Boulder, Jackson Kayak, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 911
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First off... I work with Jackson Kayak. But by no means rip at playboating and more acurately... I suck. BUT....

What I am reading from you otter is that you aren't looking for a full on freestyle boat? Am I right???

Well, if I am right...and depending on your weight, you should try one of the many Fun Series boats as well. Is what I hear you saying is that you are looking for a great surfing boat. If that is true and you are also into a combo great river runner then it is really hard to beat a JK fun series. They are super comfy, surf like mad, and are completely dry. They are my boat of preference for (Gore, Westwater, high water #'s etc)

Only issue with the fun is that they don't flat water cartwheel well. If you are into that type of stuff and more aggressive freestylie stuff, then take a look at our Star series as well. they won the worlds, US Nationals, and bottom line they loop like crazy!

In the end, there are great boats out there, and the bulk of what you are looking for, you can find used. I personally hate water getting in my boat more than anything and would stick to a drier model for just that reason.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather...To skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... WOW !!!! What a ride!!!!!!"
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Old 02-01-2006   #16
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 373

Not putting down Jackson by any means. I've got a freind that haas a 2 fun. Great boat I reccomended her to get it when she was starting out boating. She isn't doing 100 days a year and it seems like the chine is always grabbing any lateral wave.

What I am getting at is the boat seems like it is marketed for the newer paddler and river running, but I feel like that chine is prohibitive to building skills.

BTW I learned to boat in a hammer, I realize that there are some benefits to getting your ass kicked by hard edges, but I was doing 100/year.

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Old 02-01-2006   #17
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 43
I paddle a LL Vision 56 and like it. I spent a lot of time on pine/numbers in it last summer as well as in the BV and Salida play holes. I'm about 5'11" and 165 and don't find the boat too big to throw down in the flatwater or the hole for that matter. I'd say the edges aren't grabby but it likes to ride up on the stern a bit like any short boat. I think it's a great river running/playboat choice. It's fast on a wave, for a spud boat as well. The only downside in my book is the comfort factor. Then again I've never been in a spud boat that was totally comfortable.
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Old 02-01-2006   #18
Real Estate Developer and Dive shop Owner
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
You guys are having way to much fun!

Happy boating and Diving
Scuba Brad

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Old 02-01-2006   #19
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 21
have you ever thought about a wavesport zg? I have paddled a zg many times and now I finally own one. I bagged alot of first time playboating tricks in this boat.. Though, its platform is not as stable as the ezg, it is still great to run rivers in and exells in smaller holes. I also have owned a perception amp, kingpin, and g-ride. I dont think any of these boats even come close to making me feel as at home and comfortable as I do in my zg. I paddle it up to class 4 surf and never have had a problem.
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Old 02-03-2006   #20
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Otter, I know this is your post, and I hope that you got some good info about trying some new playboats. I have to change the topic to address a false comment. Again, I hope you find a playboat that suits your needs.

Now, I am going to go back to a quote written by mrekid; sorry, I just couldn't let this one go. The below statement he wrote is so far from truth. And, mrekid, I still have no hostilities toward you.

Besides who wants to pay top dallar for a regurgitation of the Jackson star series!
First of all let me say that the Wave Sport Project received Paddler mag's top choice pick for playboat of the year. It is in their most recent magazine (buyers guide edition)...check it out. There is a reason why a group of very respected boat testers chose the Project as one of the best playboats out there.

Here is my take on why mrekid's comment is very untrue.

Spud boat designs have been an interesting thing to watch. There is no doubt that the Disco was the first one to come out and wow the market. Since this time each manufacturer has created their version of a spud boat. Dagger had the G-force; Wave Sport had the Transformer; Pyranha had the Sub series; Liquid Logic had the Pop, Space Cadet, etc.... Then each company evolved on their ideas and incorporated others ideas into their own to keep fine tuning designs (G-force to Kingpin; Pop to Space Cadet; S6 to S6F) Each company had their version or "gimic" of why their boat was better. (For ex: WS tips, Dagger pods, Pyranha scoop cut) After all of these trial and error gimics failed designers started to figure out that the wedge was the best way to create a spud boat that maximized its air abilities. However, the only time these boats were awesome was when you would be in a hole or on a very steep fast wave. All other waves were really hard to catch or stay on, because the one thing all of these boats had in common was that they had unbelievably slow hulls. The Jackson Star series is a prime example of this. Even EJ admitted to me personally that his Fun series has a faster hull than the Star series. (Sorry EJ, I am not trying to discredit the Star series; it really is great in a hole or on a steep wave.) There are some companies that not only worked on the evolution of the tops of boats but also on the hull speed issue, most notably the G-Force to Kingpin to Crazy 88, and the Transformer to ZG to Project. And, of course, Corran (Riot) was always about creating fast spud boats; unfortunately, in the process he made them to aggressive for the average joe, which is evident with Otter as an example.

The speed of hulls is going to be the next step in the evolution of spud boats. The designs of the tops of boats have been figured out; there is only so much a company can do to improve that. This is most likely why MREkid thinks the Project is a regurgitated Star series. In truth, the tops of most boats all have knock offs and similarities to each other. What is going to set a spud boat apart, now and in the future, is going to be the advancement in the hull. Afterall, if I am in a playboat I would prefer it works awesome in ALL situations, not just holes or steep waves. This is where the Project stands alone in the evolution of great spud boats.

I am biased, but I doubt that the Paddler magazine guys are!

Mark Olson
Wave Sport Regional Team ( trolling here, mrekid)

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