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Old 06-23-2011   #11
Canton, Georgia
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 33
Good advice.


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Old 06-23-2011   #12
Haley Station, Ontario
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 82
I think the rivers you paddle on might dictate boat choice. Personally I started on the Ottawa which is basically a 'play' river. I find that generally it's easier to take an experience playboater and teach them how to creek then the other way around. Playboating as mentioned forces you to use good technique or you are upside down. River runners are a bit more forgiving, less edgy and higher in the water but if you have no play around it's not really worth using a playboat. Just my opinion.

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Old 06-23-2011   #13
Hans's Avatar
Louisville, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by earthNRG View Post
Playboats have a steeper learning curve, but if you stick with it and learn fast, you'll likely do better in the long run. Unless you have a "go big or go home" attitude, the playboat will likely force you to stay on easier rivers until you have a solid paddling foundation and roll, simply because you won't be comfortable stepping it up. However, if you're easily discouraged, or don't learn quickly, then I would recommend you stick with the river runner.
This was my attitude towards learning, the more difficult the boat, the bigger the learning curve, the faster/better the skills were learned. As far as class of river to start in, maybe look at the consequences factor for eff ups. I'd pick no/low consequence runs at the high end of my abilities, throw myself in & get worked often. Basically that is what most play holes are... low consequences/high thrashing beatdowns & you can learn mad skills quickly. Of course if you want to keep your paddling partners... learn to T-Rescue as well, as if you swim too often & need to have you & your gear pulled out regularly, peeps will start "being busy" when you want to paddle.

have fun, get worked, have more fun!

ps one thing i see often & makes it really obvious it's a new paddler, is barely touching the surface of the water with a paddle blade running a rapid --> envietable flip to follow --> 50/50 on the swim. sink that blade in the water... get your wrist wet (you're not going to melt no matter how sweet your grandmother thinks you are) & learn how much stability you gain/have from your blade. the opposite is true for rolls... punch your sweeping hand outta the water, feel the air, then start your roll.
~Get all the sleep I need when I'm dead.
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Old 08-14-2011   #14
sealion's Avatar
Moab, Utah
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Will you be able to keep the diesel? If so, maybe go more playful in your boat choice, and play with the play boat and run rivers with the diesel. One of my boating buddies has been using the diesel for 5 or 6? years. He owns a boat shop and can paddle anything he wants, and sticks with the diesel. Go figure.
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Old 08-14-2011   #15
Charlotte, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1
I'm really new to paddling as well. Have a Jackson Super hero that I've been learning in on class II/III water. I'm probably not ready for the playboat skill wise, but I said what the hell and jumped right in as it looks fun and I saw myself wanting to get into it. Found a great deal on a used Jackson superstar. I've got a decent combat roll = really only miss when I get tired. Anyway, the playboat is a lot of fun. It rolls way easier - haven't even come close to missing a roll yet(only had it out twice in low consequence water). Seems like half as much effort as the super hero to roll. It is really unstable though and I had to get used to how far under the rapid it goes compared to the hero. I think it will help you become a better paddler because you can't get sloppy or you will pay for it. I've been getting worked a little and getting lots of roll practice and loving every minute of it.

I'd say if you can keep the Diesel then go for it. Take it in the pool the first day and get used to it. After that find some class II and try it out. Your going to love how easy it is to roll and for me I can really brace in it the way your supposed to with your head/shoulder slapping down in the water. I couldn't brace like that in the hero. Have fun and post pics of your first bow stall!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-14-2011   #16
Amarillo, Texas
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6
since you are paddling the diesel, you could the w/s fuse a try. I prefer the ez series to the fuse series. Ideally I would look for a used big ez if you are under 220 lbs. Super ez if you are much beter. THe super ez are harder to fine. EZG50 would be good also
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Old 08-14-2011   #17
littleton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 05
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 12
I have a Nomad 8.5 or Jackson Super Star for sale.
chris 720-290-29eight two
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Old 08-14-2011   #18
Boise, Idaho
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 505
I'm definitely an advocate of getting a solid playboat (Jackson Star, Pyranha Molan, Wavesport ProjectX) and just hammering it out until you figure it out. If you get a solid roll in a playboat, and then learn your edges and balance, take it to some easy waves or a playpark and start figuring out holes... that's the best practice you'll get anywhere.

Even with a playboat you can learn waves and eddies and get your paddle strokes on a Class II / III-. Once you start stepping up to Class III+/IV I'd look into a better river runner/creeker, but I think learning on Class II with a playboat is just fine.

Agreed with the above that I wouldn't be running III's until I had a solid roll.
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Old 08-15-2011   #19
DaarrnIt's Avatar
places in between, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
great question, I am living the answer these very days.

I started kayaking 2 years ago in a stubby, and very often I will rent a remix or a hero.

I consider myself capable, but have always heard that I need to learn in a playboat, so this weekend I picked up a freeRide 57 (excellent boat) and boy was I fooling myself.

Point A to B in a river became a whole new ballgame, and it was very apparent that there were skills that were never learned in a river runner, simply because the boat did it for me and I never needed to learn that particular skill.

I highly recommend a river/play boat as it can still get you downriver, but it's a learning experience the whole way. Yes, it may start out feeling unstable compared to that Diesel, but once you learn to stabilize the little boat you can go back to taking a nap in the Diesel

whatever route you go, enjoy!

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