Yahoo! Yes, the S turn hole deservers its respect. It has a particular keeper characteristic between 1500 and 2000 cfs. This is because it is pretty much a straight across, river wide, ledge drop. Having run pine creek maybe a hundred times in my 25 years, I have almost always made that S maneuver around it. At 4500-5000cfs it is impossible to miss though, and I have been really able to realize what a amazing pour over turbulance is happening in there. At that level, while hoping to spear and punch right trough it, upon getting slammed by the wall of water in front of you, my bow has been snapped straight down to where, ever so briefly, I was standing on the pegs, and then instantly snapped with the bow straight up. All in the blink of an eye, like flipping over an hour glass, you feel how stoppish and deep the recircurculation is. Then, at those levels, the rushing current behindyou loads up against your back, flattens your chest against the bow and pushes you through the wall of water on a tail stand through it, not above it. It's pretty cool. Unfortunately, at 1500-2000, like when the Boater-X race occurred, you do not get pushed through. You drop in and stay in it's straight across and closed off ends grasp. Hee hee! As te CRC book says, "Where action and reaction reigns." You can't see and just have to feel what direction things are taking you. Below this level, the hole can be played with. And at higher levels you will be pushed out. In that special range, though, it wise to either take the far left line (the road), definitely make the S cut maneuver, or get ready for a beat down. You definitely do not want to swim, as several have drowned over the years because the action does not let up for another mile still. Piney is a classic run, though. Granite to #6, much like the North Fork of the Payette, is the poster child of what classic kayakingis all about.