Pilar vs Lower Box @ 4000+ cfs

[customfab]

Hoping a few people could comment on this. Just spoke with an acquaintance in Dallas who has heard that the Pilar has a few terminal holes at high level compared to the LTB. I was hoping to start my trip on the Rio with two Pilar racecourse runs as "warm-up" before venturing on to the LTB but he recommended against it (based on his info). The water is right around 4500cfs right now and it is expected to maintain that level. Comments?

[holmes]

The only thing a Texan knows about NM water is that the want to steal it all. Take it with a grain of salt, and the typical NM>Texan reply - brush 'em off like a big 'ole pesky fly! They only buzz loudly and act like they know it all, or own it all!!

Definitley don't take a Texan's word for it! Go down, and ask someone whom actually is paddling it at this level - preferrable a NM paddler. Look for Atom - he is the man!

And yes, I am sure there are some terminal holes, but aren't there on most big water runs - just avoid them. It has been so long since we've had this much water running down Pilar I can't recall. It is a VERY easy run to scout - check it out.

[Repa]

I wouldn't call the holes "terminal" but I hate to admit the Texan is right. Pilar (the Racecourse) actually has more consequences than the LTB at these present flows. The LTB is big but basically a wash. However, Pilar is flipping nearly 80% of all rafts right now. Most flip at the last drop...Souse Hole. If you run the traditional line (to the left) you will eat BIG meat and flush out into the heinous eddy lines below. I ran the non tradtional line to the right yesterday and came out scott free. The right line requires alot of speed and a bit of luck to crest the huge breaking wave.

The other two big holes are at Sleeping Beauty (the play spot) and Middle of the Narrows. Both can easily be avoided.

Let's put it this way...every Rio Grande guide I know doesn't want to run Pilar at all because of the high carnage factor right now. Everyone wants to go to the LTB.

Hope this helps

[customfab]

Except for the Texan comments thank. Off subject but Holmes you are simply jealous of the Texas boys with the hot women and good ole southern culture. I would, however, trade a few of the hotties for a mountain range and a high flowing river.
Repa, you running a play boat? I'll try to remember the untraditional line on the right. Thanks for the heads up.

D

[holmes]

Good 'ole Southern Culture = racist, intolerant, holier than thou.

Yeah, I'm real jealous of that! Right! (for the numbskulled texan, this is sarcasm)
Typical Texan response - we're bigger and better than you are, and we are going to force that opinion on you! The entire world is sick of this attitude, thanks to George W! The Texan attitude alone could be the end of the world as we know it.

At least we aren't on the target map up here in small town CO!

[Repa]

It depends on my mood and my purpose as to whether or not I'm paddling a play boat. Most days I'm working out there (instruction and saftey) so I'm in my Inazone242 but in free time I like to alternate between counting fish and stars while paddling my playboat.

Oh and for the record Holmes there are more registered Republicans per capita in CO than in TX. And sounds to me that you are the one who is being intolerant.

[mvhyde]

some of the better paddlers I know of are Texans...Political affiliation has little to do with it.

Holmes, get your panties out of that wad, you obviously know dick about Texas or Texans, of which I am not one, but have lived there twice.

The only bad things I have to say about Texas is that it's too damned hot there, too many snakes, and rain-driven flows of questionable origin on the few paddlable rivers are scary.

Back to the meat... Pilar at these levels is definitely more challanging than LTB at these levels. It doesn't mean you need to get relaxed on LTB though. There's a mean far left line on both Dead Car and Powerline that will spank your a$$, I broke my wrist rassling with a rock while upside down on Dead Car @ 1,750 cfs. (and no, I didn't swim, and I paddled the rest of the way out like a driven maniac)

Mike

[customfab]

Holmes attempt to self-reflect and then review your last response. You won't be suprised to find that you comments accurately describe the image in the mirror. Educate yourself further instead of digging your own grave. People such as yourself always interest me. I wonder what event in your childhood spurred such negativity and anger. The sole purpose of these forums is to gain information from one another and interact in a positive manner. Try this and you might make more friends in life. Either way, hopefully you got some type of satisfaction out of the Texan bashing, if so, I'm glad I could help. You certainly didn't hurt my feelings.
Thanks for the input guys. I am really stoked about getting up there at this level. Gonna run a pyrahna S:8 so I may be doing some minor fish watching and star gazzing myself but at least I'm in no shortie.
Oh yes, Texas whitewater is quite interesting. We simply wait for the "beep, beep" on the local news and flashflood warnings then grab the boat and jump on anything that has a gradient. Gotta love the cars and trees in the rivers.

Devin

[mvhyde]

Devin,

Just boat it heads-up. You'll be fine. Personally I think Rock Garden, Screaming Left and Scream Right are tougher at certain levels, everything after Powerline is pretty relentless. But isn't it grand?


syotr sometime

Mike

too bad G Dubya don't boat... maybe he'd protect the rivers a little more