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Old 04-17-2011   #21
Haley Station, Ontario
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 82
Maybe the person isn't that confident about their boating skills and is afraid to take people in the raft?
Dan Caldwell
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Old 04-17-2011   #22
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 56
I would appreciate that the guy told you his feelings on the trip up front. It is way better to know before you depart that he feels that way. Then you can decide if you want him to go or not.

I have some friends who didn't invite someone on a recent Canyon trip because of this issue. It was a 16 person trip and they needed boaters to row the group down the river, and there wasn't room for a boat with only two people on board (they didn't have enough experienced boaters to take the group down the river). I have done smaller trips where each boat was just a couple, and those trips were awesome. But that doesn't always work depending on the group on the trip.

I will say that there are a lot of horror stories about bad private trips because of group dynamics. Anything you can do to address that up front will pay off on the trip. Forcing someone to carry passengers when they don't want to won't help matters.

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Old 04-17-2011   #23
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 201
2 people to a boat is pretty standard. Don't try and stick some 3rd wheel on your friends boat. Make your boatless friends rent their own rafts. good group dynamics is extremely important for a 16 day 16 person trip. Don't even make your buddy feel weird for asking to be left alone with his lady friend.
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Old 04-17-2011   #24
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 115
There are 6 going on the trip that the other 10 have never been on the river with. 4 of them we have never even met. 2 of the 6 only the permit holder knows. I questioned the 6 people we don't know going for the fact that we do not know them. Out of the 10 others two of them have been down the Grand Canyon two times each as guides. The other 6 were chosen because of experience. All of the other 10 have boating experience. It isn't like a bunch of newbies going. Try wrap your minds around that one.
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Old 04-17-2011   #25
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 201
Luke, I bet you have a great time. Sometimes it's easier for strangers to get along than long term boating friends.
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Old 04-17-2011   #26
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 115
I just want to have a good time so i hop it works out.
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Old 04-17-2011   #27
Helena, Montana
Paddling Since: 96
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 488
My boat is my domain. I am a fan of personal space & boat hopping.

I have experianced the unwanted boat hoppers. You are sorta trapped w/someone that you have nothing to say to. I get the sentiment. Its better that this person was up front.

Personally, I dont want to be responsible for the safety of a stranger on a private trip.
Never get out of the boat
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Old 04-17-2011   #28
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 201
In my past experience, the folks who spend lots of money on boats can get irritated by the people that just get to show up with a new dry bag and paco pad and go. Make sure that your cling-ons help with boat prep, and after trip cleanup. And don't let them run off and steal the sweet camp spots while your boatmen derigg and set up the kitchen. Tell everyone thats just showing up they should be helping out around camp a little extra.
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Old 04-17-2011   #29
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,908
One solution would be to revise the rider and gear load distribution. Consider having the guy carry some extra group gear or drybags to lighten the load on other boats that have to take riders he would have taken but is refusing.

Also, I agree with MountainMedic and CBRob. At least he's being up front with you instead of making this a surprise headache at Lee's Ferry.

I like to have a choice in who/what rides on my boat.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 04-18-2011   #30
Dipshit with the most.
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,496
Gee there is nothing like getting invited on a trip just because of space in your boat.

I put together one or two major trips a year (not in GC which is a whole nother level of commitment.) and I don't even assume that the guys coming without a passenger will automatically take one. I prefer to have at least one passenger in each raft for safety, but I ask the boatman before I "assign" someone to them.

If this is someone who is a competent boater, someone that you want to be part of your trip figure it out. If I was invited, planned to go, was taking my wife ( who would not want to ride with just me the whole time to be certain) and then told that the only way I could go would be to take someone else, I would probably not go.

If you "asked" me I would think about it.

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