Paddling Life Magazine

[craporadon]

Low winds Nick? You must be from Routt County if you do not appreciate wind. You guys have a world class kite-skiing spot in Toponas. You should wise up and start kiting. Don't curse us by asking for low wind.

[COUNT]

So what's the difference between Paddling Life Magazine and Whitewater Life Magazine? Is WLM supposed to be what Kayak Magazine used to be (I'm still mourning that one)?

COUNT

[Smokey Carter]

Whitewater Life is definitely river specific. We're stoked to be able to say what we want, when we want and how we want.

Both magazines will have serious voice. It's gonna be sick.

[Don]

I would start by fixing the "Buyer's Guide". That was always the poorest issue Paddler and C&K put out. Hint a beginner kayaker does not need to know the boat dementions and other worthless specs. Letting them know the difference between one shape and the other might be a good place to start. Your boat reviews should be objective, you shouldn't care what the manufactures think. Be more like Consumer Reports and less like a bunch of kiss-asses looking for ad dollars. Grab yourself a copy of Rapid Mag. It's a lttle heavy on the OC-1 stuff, but hey their Canadian what can you do. Aey!

[Smokey Carter]

Will do. Great magazine. Gear is cool.

We're pretty phsyched on the adventure as well. And presenting it in the right way.......There's a lot of cool paddling stories out there. Stories from different realms and from multiple angles.............It's fun to be part of.........

[rhm]

i personally like to paddle different boats to find what i like, but there are a lot of people out there that want every bit of detail about every different boat so they can contrast and compare them. i can't tell you how many times i've been sitting in an eddy when someone asked about the specs of the boat i was paddling. 99% of the time i really don't know the answer, but there are people who are interested. i agree that most beginner boaters aren't interested in all the technical stuff, but it is experienced boaters who are going to be subscribing to the magazine. if you left out all the "boat dimensions and other worthless specs", you would have people up in arms. if you put in all that info, you might bore someone who isn't interested in it. the boats are classified in the guide as playboat, river runner, creek boat, etc. most beginners should be able to find a beginner boat even if they ignore all the other stuff.

[Don]

rhm, not sure if I've ever seen you post before. So, I not sure if your point is valid or not. But, the true grasp of most of these paddling mags is aimed at the Tatter Cover type crowd. The average paddler that boats more than 20 days a year, can skim through Paddler and Canoe&Kayak in a few minutes and pick out the 2 or 3 articles they find interesting. As far a new content- that's difficult because you're not really going to get anything new out of it. If your on this site or check out other boating sites on the web you already have 100 times more info and feedback and option- than you can get in a magazine that comes out twice a year. By the time it get's put in print it's already old news.

So, why buy the Mag... Sometimes it's just cool to flip through pages and see things in print. See the color pics, and be able to take it with you on the plane.

That being said.... It's not like it's a new conversation. It's just one that we've always talked dirrectly with the editors. For years we've asked for these magazines to rethink the Beginner's Guide issues. It was ever a big discussion point at the WW Syposium in Glenwood last year. The Editors said that the boat manufactures demanded they keep the "Excel" style demention lists. My point is that if someone really thinks that they need the width, deck height, cockpit size, length, weight- They can find all that stuff at the companies website. But, if a new boater wants to know which Dagger kayak they want to buy Agent, Nomad, Mamba, RPM, or Kinpin. The Buyer Guide is not going to tell them the difference. It just leaves most newbies confussed. All it gives them is a bunch of specs- no real feedback. If someone is asking you which size boat your in- why not make it easy for them- Tell'em your in the large size play boat or the small sized riverrunner. Telling someone your in a 7'8" long, 25" wide, 12.25" high, 18.5x31.5 cockpit, 47 gallon boat- is really worthless in most cases.

People want real info. Ask EJ to talk about his Jackson line of kayaks. He would talk about the difference between the playboat, the all-purpose boat, the river runner, and the creeker. The spec sizes just tell people the size of the boat, but nothing really about the boat.

If you want specs goto the website. If you want real info about the boats, you should be able to read about it in the mag.

I just want these guys to stop with the same old tired stuff- think outside the box- and give us something real to read. Now is the time to get things done. If you want the same old stuff- I have a bunch of Paddler and C&K copies unsold from last year for free. Change the names of the boats and the specs will be close enough - no one will now the differnce.

That's my point. Pull-p the specs on a G-Force, Kinpin, Icon, Crazy 88, Agent- pick the same size and there all about the same. Tell us the difference and that's worth reading.

[Smokey Carter]

RHM doesn't need you to have seen his posts before to say what he wants to say. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Your's is very strong. Seems like you have some good ideas in the industry but again, they aren't the final word. Have more fun. Be less angry.........

http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=11841

[COUNT]

I agree that user reviews and boat criticisms and comparisons are definately the most useful and most important part of a buyers guide. I would definately like to see more of this in the boat reviews. However, I too am interested in some of the more detailed boat specifics and differences that you can get from the spec details. How about having a main summary and review of the boat with just a line or two at the bottom devoted to the specs? This would help both parties. Also, while we're on the topic of buyers' guides, I really like how Ski and Skiing Magazines both include a page with their product tester bios. This way I can say, "well, so and so loved this ski but I see that he is a foot taller than me and twice my weight. Or this guys a big mountain skier and that guy mainly races gates." This knowledge allows me to better evaluate how a review will apply to me as a customer. My .02.

COUNT

I don't see how one buyer's guide issue makes the entire magazine unappealing to you or any other reader. Sure, Paddler's content in the past might not have interested a boater who only wants to read about whitewater, except for 40% of the editorial. I no longer work for Paddler and now our new staff has an opportunity to shake up the format of a newly created magazine. This conversation is very important, we want to know what you all think!

Shops use the buyers guide to help boaters index volume for different weight boaters, easily look and see what other models may be available as a helpful tool for the consumer (even if it not carried in the shop). If a complete listing a BGc can serve as a one stop index for all boat manufacturers phone numbers and web sites. A buyer's guide issue is not solely for a beginner either. For a whitewater buyer's guide many people might not find all the small details helpful, since different rivers, style of paddling and wants for performance make a large difference. That is where a shop guy's opinion makes all the difference and can make the consumer very happy with their end decision. Flat-water boaters and sea kayakers obsess over the listings, and they want them there. Maybe the Whitewater specific buyers guide is not the most helpful for someone who is up on the new boats and is involved in the industry in an obsessive manner, such as ourselves. But many consumers just want to boat, look into it after a few years out of the sport and would like to know the options. People like to compare prices, which change every year.

Kayak magazine was an excellent publication, I thought the last issue we were involved in kicked ass. If you looked over the eddyflower/kayak magazine creek boat review in the last issue, there was some very excellent and helpful reviews there. We have taken into account some of the feedback about fluff reviews. Some new product listings are not reviews since we are not able to test every piece of equipment, but consumers are interested in new products available. We had a variety of sized boaters paddling a myriad of creekers to show the differences and strengths of each.

If "the average paddler" finds anything besides paddling say a whitewater creekboat interesting, then there surely was plenty of articles that satisfy someone who enjoys reading, period. With new destination pieces, gear reviews, photos that take you to another place, there is plenty to take from a publication. The web is filled with marginal advice and many of the posts on forums are filled with lots of (in my opinion) pointless fighting and posturing.

Buy the mag so you are stoked on paddling and interested in reading about peoples adventures. If you solely like whitewater, try AW, Kayak Session, or Whitewater Life.

Nick

p.s. Although I sell ads, I really don't feel like a lonely person. "Selling ad space. Now that's a lonely job." - Ouch http://www.mountainbuzz.com/viewtopic.php?t=11841