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Old 02-27-2009   #11
Mike Harvey's Avatar
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 805
Originally Posted by COUNT View Post
Some runs are more fun in a playboat than a creeker. Gore is 10X more fun in the playboat for instance. There's some play in Bailey, some good rocksplats, but I don't know if there's enough to make it worth it.
I agree. I used to paddle Bailey in boats like the GForce ( is that what that one was called...damm I am getting old), the Vertigo (best creeking play boat ever) and the EZ. But a few years ago I was like "why am I doing this?" there is no play and a creek boat is way more comfortable.

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Old 02-28-2009   #12
surrounded by mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1981
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 475
I agree with Harvey. I remember demoing a Whip It on Bailey when they first hit the seen. I think I may have been solo that day, not positive though. Anyway, 3-deminsional in Super Max and everywhere made for adrenaline pegged excitement that day in my youth, but that was the last time I paddled a play boat on a class V (except for Pine Creek). I, too, admitted then "Why am I doing this?" Since that day I have made sure to have the appropriate boat for the task and have a quiver of four for myself now (ZG48, Diesel65, Habitat74, and Punk Rocker). With my passion being class IV and V, rarely does the ZG see the water. It is much funner and safer to use an appropriate boat. I think my body is partly wrecked because of play boating even in class IV. As the German saying goes: "To soon old, to late schmart." I think I would highly encourage anyone more youthful than me that don't forget -- "you have the only body you get". I am all about enjoying adventure. But, if the body is abused it will not last. I think there is a difference between risky boating with the right boat and inviting risk by chosing the wrong boat. Take care guys.

No risk, no reward. It is not that we have to, it is that we get to. Preparation and education are essential to self-confidence and success. - KV
"If there is no risk there is no adventure."- Bill Briggs
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Old 02-28-2009   #13
Focus on your own damn family, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1981
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 241
Hey guys, thanks for the thoughtful responses. My four fun is actually a bit more comfy than my Burn, but I do understand the other things like smacking a rock head on would be better in a creeker.

Secret Agent
I think you're really asking this because you're having trouble rolling your creeker; not because you think you're going to be better off paddling that run in your playboat.
Yeah, for full discosue I've only swam in the Burn twice. Once was at the bottom of Clear Creek of the Ark. Every couple of years I go through a "am I getting to old for this shit", phase. Last summer I wasn't to old. The Numbers at 3400 was very enjoyable.

Bailey isn' spiced up in a playboat its fun. its like bluegrass in a playboat fun.
Casper we paddled gore a couple of years ago and you ran Gore Rapid in a play boat which is part of what I was thinking. Your capacity for both drugs and whitewater exceed mine.

There's some play in Bailey, some good rocksplats, but I don't know if there's enough to make it worth it.
Count-good point.

damm I am getting old
well Mike I'm 47. When I'm paddling the stuff that i truly enjoy and gets my blood flowing everyone else is ten years younger( at least).

Again thanks for the responses.
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Old 02-28-2009   #14
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 505
Back in 2002 during my noob phase, a friend and I decided it was time to step it up a level and run Bailey at 370. We showed up at the put-in and waited for other boaters to show up. They all came with creekboats and elbowpads, but, we were too naive to understand what that implied. While I had my Freefall and my friend De had his Corsica, I chose my Dagger Outlaw while De went with his Perception Ultraclean because we felt we'd be better off in more maneuverable boats. We didn't hear the other boaters saying, '' Stupid Texans in their playboats and water ski lifejackets and Pro-Tec helmets. This is gonna be hilarious, tragic or both!'', but something along those lines was probably said. Anyway, after I successfully ran First Fall but then got stern squirted and flipped on Second Fall, I knew I was in the wrong boat to run Supermax as did De, so we walked it and I videotaped a dude in a red boat who flipped at the slot boof, failed his roll and swam Tampax while taking a good shot to his shin. While he did redeem himself by running it again cleanly, his friends really wanted a copy of the vid so they could post it on the 'buzz, but the contact info was lost, so, if this sounds familiar to anyone, let me know cuz I still got the footy. So, in getting to the part of why playboats aren't the best choice for Bailey, De sees the other boaters catching the eddy above Deer Creek too late, gets to the bank but ejects and leaps on shore because he was too far downstream and his boat runs the rapid without him and pins. After the dude in the red boat extracted the boat, we could see that his Ultraclean which already had hardly any volume in the bow and stern to begin with, now has a bent stern and even less volume. Subsequently, De got flipped in an easy, shallow rapid and took a shot to the forehead which required several stitches. He wouldn't have gotten flipped if he was in a creekboat. While we laugh about it now, we realize we were noobs in the wrong boats for the run. Go with a creekboat on Bailey.
Grif for President!
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Old 02-28-2009   #15
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Class III = playboat, class V = creekboat 99% of the time for me. The IV/IV+ middle ground goes either way depending on preference. Although I could take my playboat down many of the "in between" runs, I usually choose my creekboat. My personal logic is that I want as much time and practice in the creekboat so that when I run harder stuff I'm dialed. If class IV is easy enough to take a playboat down, the flip side to that coin is that you can make it as hard as possible in your creeker and dial class Vish moves and skills in the relative comfort and safety of class IV. For me, spending 40+ days straight in the creekboat pays big dividends when sitting in the eddy above some big adrenaline pumping drop with consequences.

I have taken the playboat down med/low water runs, but usually its when the creeker is cracked. My buddy and I were running black rock low, he tried a squirt in a decent looking spot, flipped and got a major head shot. Moral of the story is many of the colorado IV/IV+/V- runs can be rocky and hazardous to your health when upside down! Ouch! On many of the runs I "could" take my playboat down, I'd be worried about being upside down. That kinda takes the fun away from having the playboat.

Of course the reality is that its all personal preference and motivation. You could take a playboat, creekboat, squirt boat, race boat, or inner tube down whatever you want if thats what you want to do. As long as you are having fun, and have the skills to pilot your boat of choice safely, its all good.
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Old 02-28-2009   #16
Mad Scientist/Creeker
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What I would add here, that has been hinted at but not covered, is that the more bigger volume the river the more appropriate a playboat will be. A shallow low volume class III creek run (i.e. Clear Creek) still might be more comfortably and safely run in a creekboat, while a big water class V run (i.e. the Zambezi) with very few rocks might be fine, or even easier in some ways, in a playboat.

Playboats are for runs with ample flow. This is why many people see Gore as a better playboat run than Bailey. Gore has more volume, less rock confrontations and more waves and features for getting in some play.

Also, as was mentioned, doing class V lines in your creekboat in class IV whitewater is great, but doing the same thing in your playboat is even better for your skills cause the lines are harder to make and if you are already comfortable in your creekboat, when you hop back in it, it will feel way easier to make the same type of lines.

Evan Stafford
Cub boater: "What do the spiders mean?" Old fart boater: "Trust your intuition." CRCII
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