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Old 06-16-2005   #51
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Medman, I have voted Republican and Democrat and I consider myself to be middle of the road, hopefully with some common sense. I never intended to bash Republicans in general but this Republican candidate is too far to the right for my tastes. If he suits yours then enjoy the next two years. I for one will be glad when his term is over. Hell, maybe McCain will run in 08 and I will vote for him. As far as some of the other silly stuff about not bagging a Republican well thats just buzz talk. Maybe we can meet some day and discuss this over a beer and discuss the finer points of our current president.
Brettb, oh come on, I listened to everyone running Clinton down for 8 years and I thought he was a good president. Your guy is in the whitehouse, take your lumps.

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Old 06-16-2005   #52
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 498
Jeez brent that was a pretty hate filled name calling, stereotyping post for someone playing the victim. sj

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Old 06-16-2005   #53
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 58
At this point I've given up a strong position about which party is better. Now, I would be satisfied with a president who is interested in the truth. Some examples: wmd, past US involvement in the middle east, US support of non-democratic regimes, cost of iraq war, iraq involvement in 9-11, cost of prescription drug benefit, cost of social security privatization, costs of three rounds of tax cuts, existence of global warming, current situation in iraq.

I'd love a president who made an attempt to be honest about the costs and benefits of different programs.

Right now we have a president who delibrately misleads americans and members of his own political party. Power is secured by over-emphasizing divisive issues and appealing to one issue voters. Dissenters are branded unpatriotic and it is insinuated that they are aiding and abetting terror.

I think it's time to go boatin'

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Old 06-16-2005   #54
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Damn jp, thats probably the first insightful post out here and I agree.
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Old 06-16-2005   #55
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 112
keep studying medman and keep ranting


he quote is taken from..I supppose a book or article written in 1974 by the author stated
WRONG the quote is from directly from Artcile XI the text of Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli ratified by th US Senate in 1796. look it up - in a library if you prefer- the Library of Congress

This is not a rip on Christians, I have religous/spiritual beliefs and many coincide with Christianity. I have nothing against them or anyone else right, left, black, white, trangendered, etc., but ignorance on the other hand . . .
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Old 06-16-2005   #56
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Old 06-16-2005   #57
Join Date: May 2005
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OH BRENT! - Thanks for the throw down! I am neither a Dem or a Rep. I have a job that gives me the pleasure... oh wait, the burden, of dealing with and talking to our elected officials and their lobbies each day. All politicians spend most of their time making news out of sound bites and simple catch phrases that people can easily understand and then bring into arenas like this thread to argue about. Every single argument or point that is being made here on this thread was originally developed in a War Room during some strategic planning session of one of the parties.

We are all the creatures of simplistic, shallow arguing that both parties want us to be. The federal budget last year was 15,000 pages... which one of us read the entire thing? The No Child Left Behind Act of 2002 is 750 pages long, before additions and amendments... anybody read each page? There is more to the legislation passed at all levels of government than the sound bites we hear on TV or in the newspapers. But, that is the way of American politics, we have the simplistic sound bites brainwashed into us by the media and politicians and then we act righteous and all-knowing and argue with one another about things that are far more complex than anyone, from either side of the spectrum will admit... or learn for that matter.

After being saturated with all the "spin" and political wrangling for years and years and realizing that 98% of people who talk about politics are unwaivering and closed-minded in their views, I believe the only thing WORTH doing anymore is to make fun of all the generalizing and sound bites. Saturday Night Live anybody??? Because in the end, everybody who thinks they know something about politics becomes more righteous with every sound bite they hear reinforcing their opinion and more angry with every phrase uttered they disagree with— that much is apparent through the posts on this thread.

Yes, it is true our country was founded by people who ORGINALLY were seeking religous freedom... but the American revolution was started over an outcries over an unfair tax system set up by the British. Taxation without representation... does that ring a bell for any of you history buffs. The Boston Tea Party??? Anyone, anyone, Bueller... Bueller?

Why aren't we talking about the politics that really matter to us anyway? Study after study shows that local and state politics have a greater effect, morally, socially, economically, etc. etc. than national and international policies do, but we don't hear any debate on issues close to home on this thread. Why? Because there aren't sound bites on TV and in the newspaper about what is happening at your local city council meeting or county commissioners meeting. The political landscape has made the most important and influential politics, the ones closest to home, the most ignored. As kayakers, our rights to float water in this state are being challenged every year (Steamboat anyone???)... who's talking about that? The state has been pouring tens of millions of tax dollars throughout the last couple of years into promoting tourism and recreation in Colorado. We needed a way to rebound from our tech-heavy economy which hit a major recession in 2000-01... which might be why so many of you "old Buzz guys" have seen so many newbies on this site and on the rivers— the state government wants more people to participate in recreational sports, including kayaking and skiing. In fact they are banking on it. Look at the traffic on I-70 during the ski seasons now... it wasn't that way five years ago. They want the Confluence Kayaks and Mountain Misers out there to start bringing in more tax revenue because the tech-sector isn't cutting it anymore. Look at GOCO, or Great Outdoors Colorado, funded largely by Lottery dollars... they are spending millions of dollars each year to protect hiking trails, build skate-parks, frisbee golf courses, kayak parks... need I say more? These are the issues that effect us the most, but this thread is nothing more than Bush-bashing and arguments about the Iraq war and gas prices... which I admit are important.

Brent, you're right, my posts are pretty generalized and lacking data and quotes from books, etc. etc. etc. I could do that if you would like me to... it's my job to be the guy who comes up with the sound bites and one-sided buckets of data that support political views. I am just trying to make light of all the stupid arguments... nix that— pre-essembled sound bites, that make their way onto this thread. Let's all agree to hate each other and ANY political view we may disagree with and move on to the more light-hearted arena of American politics... making fun of the generalization of complex issues that NONE of us truly understand anyway. So, take a load off and accept my posts for they are. DUMB and in the interest of slap-happy humor!
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Old 06-16-2005   #58
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 112
So this "fundamentalist Christian view" that you all think that Bush is pushing is ironically the foundation on which this country was built on.
The problem is with your above assertion that this country was built on a Christian foundation.

Look medman I will not dispute that Christianity - probably - had some input into our country's founding - sure. So did - probably - the the Iroquios nation, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, England, and numerous other nations and other influences. But fundamentalist christians should not be constantly chortling that this county was "founded on Christianity" or some variation of that theme. Our country was founded b/c people freed religous persecution. They were well aware of the dangers of mixing religion and politics, which is lost on many today. It's simply fundamentally wrong to assert that this country was founded on Christianity, and perverts this country's very founding for the religous rights' own BS propaganda.

and finally one last cut and paste from the Internet:
t is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - abe lincoln.
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Old 06-16-2005   #59
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Posts: 131
JP et al

JP = Exactly! do you not see that I could stereo type too but choose not to ? why ? because I'm not you! and I understand and accept that we are all different!!!! duh! my best freinds have opposits views as me and I understand that!!!! I am not stereotyping but merely showing how repubs are all stereotyped!!!! You appear to be filled with that hatred too that you dont even recognize that aI was making a comparison of what I sai truly to what many hateful liberals are spuing!!!!

who is playing a victim? both parties get bad raps from each other this thread is filled with nothing but stereotyping & again that was my point by giving and alternative "stereotypical" response that I dont believe! thanks for your input though! the front range boulderite comment was merely for points in the sport of the thread sorry if it offened you! I lived in Boulder its beautiful and fun! later!

cayo = whos bitching about student loans, more like providing factual information so you and others understand the we are not a Lib. or Repub. with a full ride!

also I am not stereotyping like I said above... I dont believe liberals are bad and all the same... and for me extreme left & right are way out of line!!!!!! come on! do you really think I believ all the monsterous homes going up in the burbs are Republicans??? I certainly hope others dont believe so!

DanOrion = ummmm! I hope your not serious about not knowing the answer to that question! but if so here is some insight!
1. OIL (for OUR gas hogs) plus many people wont let us drill on our own land! without foreign oil our country would be in serious danger!
2. OIL just kidding ...thought I'd help out the oil only band wagon folks
3. Evil Ruler!!!!!! c'mon the past few pres's all have stated what a threat he was but no-one would do anything!!! I'm not a hardcore GW fan but i admire his ability to kick ass instead of pussy foot like Clinton & Daddy!!
4. The people suffering! enough said there!!!
5. Securing a stable country amidst the mideast will help all countries! ex: already happening! election in Iraq! Syria pulling out ! etc.
6. Securing this country just like in the game risk! allows th U.S. to set up the next move Iran!!!! so which initially wold be the easiest country to take first? it's not that obvious?
7. There could bo some seriously cool first descents there!!!! Hmmmmmm!!

Oh and the liar part! c'mon one man cannot lie nor the entire administartion!!!! the information was all presented on the table and voted on world wide!!! it does not take a rocket scientist to see that this war is not over lies from one man & his admin. and no I'm not trying to make fun of you! just allowing peopl to see thru the bandwagons that are all out ther! on both side!

J Rock = thanks for the input! I originally believed it to be funny (Cigar) but c'mon! I also threw it in there for humor!!! and Bush is not my god just my Pres. that I have to try and respect just like Clinton et al because they represent the country i live in..... I choose to live here and so do all of us! if we hate our president that much then we should just move! but good luck with that one !!!1

I agree if we were to talk Polotics on this forum it should be the coalition of all of us toward BOATING! which is why I posted in the first pplace! thi discouragement of see rep. vs. dem. on this site!! Oh and for the records I dont watch TV, or read the newspaper! by that time it is not real news and has been slanted in a direction!!!! Rush is just entertainment & I dont even like to l;isten to him anymore!! Mike Rosin on 850 KOA I think is a great talker but I dont listen to him for news or facts... i always research before I speak....If I even choose to!
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Old 06-16-2005   #60
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Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 682
if you read the declaration of independence and constitution you will note the language that was quoted earlier about a "creator" ect.
I've read them. Didn't come across "Christian", "Jesus" or "Bible" in either. Here's a quote from the author of the Declaration of Independence...

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classified
with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these
United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding and restore
to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated
Reformer of human errors."

--Thomas Jefferson
Does that sound like Christian fundamentalism to you? The Enlightenment and humanism had at least as much influence on the founders' philosophy as Christianity did.

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